What is the state law on producing I.D. on demand from law enforcement

[Glocktogo]

Old saying “Reisistance equals ouch, jail, and more money “ From an old PD Sergeant

That's fine, if the officer is 100% in the right. What if the officer is 100% wrong? Therein lies the rub. The citizen is told "ignorance of the law is no excuse". The LEO is told "you got the law wrong but no worries, you have QI so ignorance of the law IS an acceptable excuse". That is NOT acceptable!

I don’t understand the whole “Qualified Immunity” argument. If an officer has a bad shoot, crashes into someone, uses excessive force, or many other examples, they are held accountable just like anyone else. And as far as the bicycle situation, if you break a traffic law on a bicycle you have to identify just as if you were driving a car.

LOL, no. There are far too many documented cases where LEO mistakes or bad faith acts are either swept under the rug, or minimized to a point no citizen would be afforded under equal circumstances. Yes there are individual agencies who hold their LEOs to high standards and yes, there are improvements being made across the board. That doesn't mean there isn't room for more improvement and as stated above, ignorance of the law by LEO's should not be an acceptable condition.

QI didn't keep me from getting sued for $17M by a kid that was afraid to tell his parents what happened. So he made up a dandy story...that changed several times. I was cleared by the DA's office, my department internal affairs section and an FBI investigation.

It took 2 years of my life to resolve and damaged my reputation in the community and I had no recourse against him and his family (mom and dad were felons...mom was a two-time loser trying to sue LE or EMTs) because they were deadbeats and didn't have anything.

So I wound up in US District Court for 7 days defending myself against something that didn't happen. It took the jury less than 15 mins to come back in my favor because it was so obvious this little POS and his family were lying s**tbags.

The little bastard did learn a valuable civics lesson in the end, though. He was on the hook for nearly a half million dollar judgment against him by the court for court costs, attorney fees (mine) and other costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of you guys that have hardons for cops would do something like that. A good portion of society is comprised of really awful people...some of them masquerading as everyday Joes. I didn't learn that on YouTube...I learned it from living among people like that for 62 years.

I don't quite understand this situation. How did you lose your Qualified Immunity? Why didn't your department or DA's office represent you? If the plaintiff's case was so flimsy, how did it survive all the way to a civil trial? Please elaborate.

Once again you're too ignorant to face facts that your precious LE community is justified in wrongful actions, and you can go **** yourself with your statement about me disrespecting the military. That statement will get you stomped out jackass.

You're new here so you haven't learned yet, but you need to cool your jets and control your emotions if you plan on being around for long. No one's gonna miss you if you catch a ban.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. A ask a woman if she thinks her clothes are a bit too tight for her body type.

Maybe you should tell your SIL she's getting fat while you're at it.

(old thread joke btw) Should I tell my sister in law she's getting fat?

Qualified immunity applies only in civil lawsuits, not criminal prosecutions.

Yes, which is a double-edged sword. It protects officers from wrongful litigation payouts. It also insulates them from rightful litigation payouts. Instead, the taxpayers indemnify the wronged, while the bad actor either goes on to violate people's rights in the same agency, or hops around from agency to agency doing the same. Wash, rinse, repeat. We don't need to eliminate QI, but we do need to implement significant reforms to QI. What that might look like is up for debate, but the status quo continues to erode public faith in the profession.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

I don't quite understand this situation. How did you lose your Qualified Immunity? Why didn't your department or DA's office represent you? If the plaintiff's case was so flimsy, how did it survive all the way to a civil trial? Please elaborate.

Because he sued me civilly in my professional and private capacity in a Section 1983 Civil Rights complaint. It's not unusual...happens every day somewhere. I had insurance thru the department that paid my attorney fees. Seriously? You've never seen frivolous civil suits go to trial? Again...this kind of crap happens to cops every day. And they have no recourse because the people suing them usually don't have anything and never will. So you win a judgment... Big deal.

I'm not sure why you're having a difficult time understanding what I wrote.

 

[Glocktogo]

Because he sued me civilly in my professional and private capacity in a Section 1983 Civil Rights complaint. It's not unusual...happens every day somewhere. I had insurance thru the department that paid my attorney fees. Seriously? You've never seen frivolous civil suits go to trial? Again...this kind of crap happens to cops every day. And they have no recourse because the people suing them usually don't have anything and never will. So you win a judgment... Big deal.

I'm not sure why you're having a difficult time understanding what I wrote.

Because you have not adequately explained the situation. I asked specific questions and other than the insurance, you didn't answer them. Why is that?

You inferred that you were in jeopardy of owing Plaintiff Deadbeat $17M personally. Is that actually true? If so, how did your QI from civil tort get denied by the courts? That is the first defense against a 1983 suit, is it not? Even if that happened, as often as a frivolous suit goes to trial they get dismissed for cause, sometimes with prejudice if they're so frivolous as you say yours was. Was your counsel ineffective, or just soaking the insurance company for fees?

Also, who does Plaintiff Deadbeat owe attorney's fees and other costs to? You? Your legal team? Your insurance company? Is there somewhere we can read the case transcripts?

Finally, did this happen in Colorado or Connecticut? I ask because their state laws differ from ours.

https://www.ncsl.org/civil-and-crim..., the Supreme Court,'t “clearly established.”
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity

 

[okcBob]

“ If so, how did your QI from civil tort get denied by the courts?”

this. It seems strange that the QI wouldn't prevent the case from proceeding.

 

[HillsideDesolate]

I have a good friend. Loved him through his Qanon phase. He was 100% convinced there were going to be military tribunals and 150k indictments on elitist leftists. Rosanne bar was just on timcast IRL and she still thinks the tribunals are coming and that there won’t be an election. My friend in the other hand doesn’t talk to me about Qanon. I remember him asking “why don’t you believe this stuff man? The evidence is all there”. And I said something to the effect of “look, I don’t believe in Bigfoot either. But if they find a real bigfoot I’d be like, cool!”

My daycare provider in Seattle went from asking me, "what does MAGA mean?" To full AR building Qanon in the scope of a year. Granted it was during covid and the BLM riots. She would always be like, "You know all of this, you told me what MAGA meant." Things can get strange when you eat all the red pills at once.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

Because you have not adequately explained the situation. I asked specific questions and other than the insurance, you didn't answer them. Why is that?

You inferred that you were in jeopardy of owing Plaintiff Deadbeat $17M personally. Is that actually true? If so, how did your QI from civil tort get denied by the courts? That is the first defense against a 1983 suit, is it not? Even if that happened, as often as a frivolous suit goes to trial they get dismissed for cause, sometimes with prejudice if they're so frivolous as you say yours was. Was your counsel ineffective, or just soaking the insurance company for fees?

Also, who does Plaintiff Deadbeat owe attorney's fees and other costs to? You? Your legal team? Your insurance company? Is there somewhere we can read the case transcripts?

Finally, did this happen in Colorado or Connecticut? I ask because their state laws differ from ours.

Why is it you tend to come across as such a d**k? Yes...it's a true story. Are you writing a f**king book or what? I don't care to broadcast specifics of my personal life on the internet...maybe you do. And you're entitled to know what I feel like telling you and nothing more. You should know QI shields law enforcement officers only when their actions do not violate a clearly established statutory or constitutional right. They alleged his rights were violated by me (mostly due to alleged excessive force). They sued me. Why is that so hard to believe? You act like this is something unusual. It's not.

I didn't get involved in all of the preliminary issues. I had attorneys for that. I don't know why the judge allowed the case to go forward, but he did. It was over 20 years ago. My focus at the time was to defend myself...not worry about the legal theories involved. Again...that's why I had attorneys. And nowhere did I say (in the first post where I mentioned the suit) that it was frivolous or flimsy. You said that. I said he made up a story and changed it several times...with regards to what I did to him. I said he and his family were liars with a history of trying to sue. I said the jury took only a very short time to decide in my favor.

And the attorneys weren't trying to "soak" anyone. How do you jump to these sorts of accusations so easily? He billed out around $450 an hour with 2 assistant atty's that billed at about 1/2 that plus an office staff. They worked the case for over 2 years. Do the math. I wasn't invited specifically what the judgment against the little turd said or stipulated. I do recall hearing that figure, though.

You can choose to believe what I said or not.

 

[HillsideDesolate]

You're an uneducated jackass that assumes that someone comes from cali they must be a liberal? I was born and raised in Kern county which was a solid red county until recently which is why we left. Narrow minded idiots like yourself that assume are the reason our country is like this.

Well have a great Labor day and don't watch too much CNN lol

To be fair, Kern county is the Oklahoma of California. They even have an accent. It's the home of Buck Owens.

 

[Russ IT Guy]

To be fair, Kern county is the Oklahoma of California View attachment 408112

The rest of the state views everyone there as rednecks and dust bowl babies lol

 

[HillsideDesolate]

The rest of the state views everyone there as rednecks and dust bowl babies lol

At least it's not Chowchilla.

 

[SoonerP226]

Qualified immunity applies only in civil lawsuits, not criminal prosecutions.

It’s also not just bad cops who can be protected by QI. Since roughly 2009, the courts haven’t even had to consider the constitutionality of the gov’t actor’s actions; they can summarily dismiss based strictly on a claim of QI.