Are you really libertarian at heart?

[flybeech]

I have to ask those on favor of gay marriage, do you also support the rights of business people and churches not to be involved with a gay marriage if it goes against their beliefs?

Of course! That's freedom of association. Just as the Constitution does not allow the Federal government to control marriage, it also does not allow the Federal government to tell me with whom I must associate. They go hand in hand and both thoughts are the same.

 

[flybeech]

I am libertarian on most domestic issues but not as much on foreign affairs. If we are ever going to change the two party system it will have to start at the local level. Maybe in time it will grow all the way to the top.

I fully agree on your last comment. Go to the precinct meetings this week and become a committeeman for your precinct to change how the party operates from the local level. But what do you mean you're lot of liberty-minded thought on foreign affairs? Does that mean that you support endless undeclared and unconstitutional wars?

 

[RickN]

Of course! That's freedom of association. Just as the Constitution does not allow the Federal government to control marriage, it also does not allow the Federal government to tell me with whom I must associate. They go hand in hand and both thoughts are the same.

So you would not agree with a baker facing up to $50,000 in fines because he would not make a wedding cake for a gay couple?

But what do you mean you're lot of liberty-minded thought on foreign affairs? Does that mean that you support endless undeclared and unconstitutional wars?

If you mean Iraq etc, they were declared and are not unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has never ruled one way or the other on the war powers act so it is an open question until ruled otherwise.

 

[flybeech]

So you would not agree with a baker facing up to $50,000 in fines because he would not make a wedding cake for a gay couple?

If you mean Iraq etc, they were declared and are not unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has never ruled one way or the other on the war powers act so it is an open question until ruled otherwise.

Point 1: Absolutely not! The baker should be free to bake for whom he chooses, in the same spirit that Catholic hospitals should be free to refuse to deny abortions and birth control. Heck, if I were the baker, I would be glad to bake their cake, because that would mean more money for me.


Point 2: It is my understanding that Congress has not declared any war since WWII, though we have spent massive treasure, fought and died in the many "kinetic actions" since then. it is my understanding that since the WWII, conflicts were military engagements authorized by United Nations Security Council Resolutions and funded by Congress. Starting with Korea, the United Nations has been controlling our military deployments, Congress just went along for the ride. As Defense Secretary informed a shocked Senator Jeff Sessions, the United Nations and NATO tell us where to fight and Congress is merely ceremonial.

If you've got any link to any declarations of war Congress has made since then, I will follow them and humbly stand corrected.

 

[Glocktogo]

I'm a Constitutionalist/classical liberal. Sadly, one is practically extinct and the other is on the endangered species list.

 

[flybeech]

I'm a Constitutionalist/classical liberal. Sadly, one is practically extinct and the other is on the endangered species list.

According to this little poll and most of the comments, the Constitution and classical liberalism may be experiencing something of a Renaissance.

 

[Walrus]

In skimming through some of the answers, I detect some misunderstanding of the differences between libertarianism and other ideologies such as conservatism. In general, classic libertarians could be considered as isolationist and strictly minimalist constitutionalists, but to me it's always been interesting to discover the common threads between libertarians of both conservative and liberal leanings. The isolationism of classic libertarianism seems to me to ignore the realities of the modern world but I have to admit there's a good point to it when one considers the past decade of neo-con-inspired nation-building.

Here is a link to a page which is called the Nolan survey. This will hopefully be helpful if someone needs to understand how their own political leanings are viewed within the overall spectrum. I have friends who nailed the libertarian middle right at the 12:00 spot but I personally ended up being what I'd call "2:30 libertarian".

http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php

I think most conservatives are more libertarian than they realize, actually, but I also believe that one thing many conservatives need to realize is that social conservatism - regardless of whether or not one personally agrees or disagrees with various parts of the "platform" - is perilously close to fascist thinking. If one chooses to have government enforce one's ideology, what's the difference between that and statist neofascist thinking - no matter whether or not the cause seems just? Not a popular position in the Bible Belt but oh well ......

We all must answer to God someday; I prefer to kneel before the judgment seat in humility, having done my level best to have done right and knowing that it wasn't good enough anyway, and needing His grace. But hopefully I won't have to answer for forcing someone to live in a way they would rather have chosen not to, if they'd been given their own choice.

 

[flybeech]

In skimming through some of the answers, I detect some misunderstanding of the differences between libertarianism and other ideologies such as conservatism. In general, classic libertarians could be considered as isolationist and strictly minimalist constitutionalists, but to me it's always been interesting to discover the common threads between libertarians of both conservative and liberal leanings. The isolationism of classic libertarianism seems to me to ignore the realities of the modern world but I have to admit there's a good point to it when one considers the past decade of neo-con-inspired nation-building.

Here is a link to a page which is called the Nolan survey. This will hopefully be helpful if someone needs to understand how their own political leanings are viewed within the overall spectrum. I have friends who nailed the libertarian middle right at the 12:00 spot but I personally ended up being what I'd call "2:30 libertarian".

http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php

I think most conservatives are more libertarian than they realize, actually, but I also believe that one thing many conservatives need to realize is that social conservatism - regardless of whether or not one personally agrees or disagrees with various parts of the "platform" - is perilously close to fascist thinking. If one chooses to have government enforce one's ideology, what's the difference between that and statist neofascist thinking - no matter whether or not the cause seems just? Not a popular position in the Bible Belt but oh well ......

We all must answer to God someday; I prefer to kneel before the judgment seat in humility, having done my level best to have done right and knowing that it wasn't good enough anyway, and needing His grace. But hopefully I won't have to answer for forcing someone to live in a way they would rather have chosen not to, if they'd been given their own choice.

Boy! You nailed it in a nutshell. I couldn't possible add a thing to your summary. I enjoyed taking the Nolan Test you provided and scored a 12:00 o'clock. While I am a registered Republican of nearly 40 years, the GOP is far from representing me and in my view, is fundamentally the same thing as the Democrat party, with the exception of superficial things that keep us fighting, while TPTB work hand-in-hand passing legislation that does nothing but strip our liberty. Oddly, I believe that many average citizens of both parties also share libertarian beliefs, but like most Republicans in the neocon faction, they tend to have a party above all attitude.

The best I can do is remain active in the GOP party, attempt to educate both Republicans and Democrats of libertarian ideals, continue to remain involved in the party as a precinct committeeman and recruit like-minded Republicans to attend their precinct meetings (this week), and fill the majority of precincts that remain unrepresented with like-minded individuals.

 

[Walrus]

Sadly, I think you're absolutely correct. If the GOP changed the name of the party to Republicrats, it'd be more accurate.

 

[onearmedman]

It's heartening to hear many of your responses here. Most of the time, I feel pretty isolated having Libertarian views. Maybe I'm not the only one who began, politically speaking, as a Republican. These days, I want nothing to do with the two parties.
The gvt has no business requiring an adult to wear a seatbelt or a helmet. However, insurance companies should be free to adjust rates accordingly or void the policy. You go down, no helmet, it's on you. No seatbelt,same deal. That's personal responsibility tied to Liberty.
You wanna get that medicinal MJ card? Blaze up! But don't whine when you lose/can't get a job. Don't expect to be eligible for any gvt assistance since you are unemployed. Don't file for SSDI just because you are using a gvt approved substance. You exercised your freedom and Liberty, but the responsibility for the consequences are still on you.
"Marriage" is none of the gvt's biz either. Free, consenting adults, no problem. Homosexual, Polygamists, no problem. But, as one of you pointed out, freedom of association comes into play. Many crave their version of freedom and liberty, but don't want the responsibility that comes with it.