Army wants to dump the M9?

[MoBoost]

Stop "stopping power" idiocy! Good read:
http://www.policemag.com/channel/we...opping-power-myths-legends-and-realities.aspx

9mm FMJ VS 45ACP FMJ
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Source: http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

 

[JD8]

I'd rather have a nice deep wound channel with the temp cavity extending through the whole channel. The Silvertip example from the ancient and outdated articles also looks really good too.

I think most people agree that you want the largest, deepest wound channels possible, so that they bleed out as fast as possible. Granted you don't hit CNS or bone.

 

[MoBoost]

I'd rather have a nice deep wound channel with the temp cavity extending through the whole channel. The Silvertip example from the ancient and outdated articles also looks really good too.

I think most people agree that you want the largest, deepest wound channels possible, so that they bleed out as fast as possible. Granted you don't hit CNS or bone.

What makes either of the articles I linked to be "outdated"?

And most people do want to hit CNS or bone ... bleeding out on the way to the hospital is generally too late.

 

[Jon3830]

Are revolvers out of the equation? Totally?

In 2003 I saw a colonel who was carrying a .38 snubby I asked him about it and he said thats what he started his career with and thats what he would finish with.

 

[JD8]

And most people do want to hit CNS or bone ...

Exactly. Larger temp and perm cavities will increase the likelihood of said hits in addition to loss of blood pressure.

Your example is antiquated because it still doesn't represent anything other than soft tissue hits accurately. The human body is tough, and I'd like to see a more precise representation of what will actually happen because there are other soft tissues other than muscle and this would create a TON of variables. Not to mention there are several JHPs that outperform those given but that's a red herring here.

In all transparency, I believe that no round will knock someone down, or anything of the like. 10mm being the exception, naturally. I believe that a hot 9mm round is just fine for our armed forces. They are more like to be involved in the "gang fights" that so many CCW holders believe they will be engaged in.

 

[MCVetSteve]

You buy into that whole .45 is a magic bullet thing, huh?

Shooting live targets is related to real estate in only one way, the most important thing is location location location.

 

[Coded-Dude]

What's wrong with the Browning hi power? Hasn't it been used more than most any other firearm by militaries around the world?

Transmitted via Tactical Telecommunications Device

 

[Junior Bonner]

The only thing im chiming in about is this. Police carrying a handgun is vastly different from the military carrying a handgun. When a soldier engages the tactics are way different than when Leos engage. There is some similarities but if I can make an enemy duck n cover, chances are I can get mobile n get gone or get maneuvering.

Militsry combst is way different than policeing up bad guys. I want lotsa shots, not dbl taps.

I looked at a 5.7 FN thst held 20+rnds. Funky manual of arms but im guessing it could be taught to soldiers. Wouldnt be a far stretch to use 5.7 uppers as well.

The Five seveN is the right handgun with the right round. But I promise you, Lurker, it will not even be considered in the upcoming trials. It will be 9mm vs .45 all over again.

 

[dennishoddy]

You believe in what he said, too?

"1 shot and they are down for good"

Yikes, I thought you knew better....

LOl, you cherry pick and introduce your sarcasm that in no way has anything to do with what I said.

Most of us know that no bullet knocks anybody down. I've seen deer hit with a .458 Weatherby magnum that continued to run until their blood pressure fell enough for them to die.

I've seen deer shot with a .22-250 drop in their tracks. Its all about placement.

 

[uncle money bags]

It has been my experience that when this debate comes up, the guys advocating the bigger is better, or this and that special sauce seem to overlook the most important part, which is training. Of course they can argue the absurd and start making comments like," well, then the .22 should be the tits if shot placement is everything". Penetration is necessary for the round to work and if a .22 will do it in all of the scenarios you expect to encounter, then more power to you. Further, by accuracy I mean the shooters ability to put hits where they want when they want.
I wont say one way or the other except to relate this fact. I had a great uncle who was a deputy sheriff in Washita county killed in the line of duty by a single .22 shot to the chest. So take that for what it is worth.

Caliber selection for a round you intend to depend on to save your life should be determined by reliability first, accuracy/penetration second, and special sauce a distant last. As long as you satisfy those requirements for the anticipated threat then have at it.