Channel 9(KWTV) on OK Gun Shows & Background Checks

[RugersGR8]

I hate to say it, but at the last two gun shows I went to, there were at least TWO separate guys at two separate tables that used the "private sale, no paperwork" as their selling point or sales pitch. I'm about a white as they come, so is my wife. She approached each table ( I was usually a table behind her ), and the firs thing out of their mouths went something like "good deal on a nice gun, practically new. no paperwork to buy" - seriously. 4 tables in total - all handguns.

I hate to say it, but the gunshow loophole not only exists, but is being exploited as a sales point. I don't imagine any of these guys would turn down a sale to anyone, regardless of what they looked like, what they were wearing, how they spoke. They were in it for the money.

My wife told me that the guy she bought my fathers day present from (A 1943 mosin) told her "Looks brand new. probably never been fired" - and no, he wasn't kidding. just wanted to make a sale. He had the rifle tagged at $245 bucks. She paid $150 because that's the max I would pay for a run of the mill mosin.) - same guy tried to use the 'no paperwork' as a selling point. When she told him that I had a C&R so paperwork wouldn't be a problem any way, he actually acted like he was offended.

Indiscriminate sellers are going to cause this loophole to get closed, causing heartache for the rest of us. There was no question as to what was inferred by the 'no paperwork' sales pitch and wink.

I would imagine that if these two guys keep this practice up at a number of future gun shows(or anywhere else), that they will be visited by the BATFE and get busted---probably rightly so. Sales by individuals would not involve the volume of firearms that these two "individuals" are selling. Maybe these two "sellers" are two greedy profiteers at work or are two "community organizers" at work?

________________________________
"In the beginning the organizer's first job is to create the issues or problems."----Saul Alinsky

 

[EFsDad]

I hate to say it, but the gunshow loophole not only exists, but is being exploited as a sales point. I don't imagine any of these guys would turn down a sale to anyone, regardless of what they looked like, what they were wearing, how they spoke. They were in it for the money.

Indiscriminate sellers are going to cause this loophole to get closed, causing heartache for the rest of us. There was no question as to what was inferred by the 'no paperwork' sales pitch and wink.

Just so I'm clear and understand you, what exactly is the "loophole" at gun shows that doesn't exist anywhere else?

 

[farmerbyron]

I hate to say it, but at the last two gun shows I went to, there were at least TWO separate guys at two separate tables that used the "private sale, no paperwork" as their selling point or sales pitch. I'm about a white as they come, so is my wife. She approached each table ( I was usually a table behind her ), and the firs thing out of their mouths went something like "good deal on a nice gun, practically new. no paperwork to buy" - seriously. 4 tables in total - all handguns.

I hate to say it, but the gunshow loophole not only exists, but is being exploited as a sales point. I don't imagine any of these guys would turn down a sale to anyone, regardless of what they looked like, what they were wearing, how they spoke. They were in it for the money.

My wife told me that the guy she bought my fathers day present from (A 1943 mosin) told her "Looks brand new. probably never been fired" - and no, he wasn't kidding. just wanted to make a sale. He had the rifle tagged at $245 bucks. She paid $150 because that's the max I would pay for a run of the mill mosin.) - same guy tried to use the 'no paperwork' as a selling point. When she told him that I had a C&R so paperwork wouldn't be a problem any way, he actually acted like he was offended.

Indiscriminate sellers are going to cause this loophole to get closed, causing heartache for the rest of us. There was no question as to what was inferred by the 'no paperwork' sales pitch and wink.

I don't know that "no paperwork" is a red flag for criminal activity. There are plenty of people that don't want buy a gun they see as "registered". I've got an uncle that won't buy new because of the 4473 he sees as registration. Hell, he won't even join the NRA or anything that might put him on a "list".

 

[aviator41]

Just so I'm clear and understand you, what exactly is the "loophole" at gun shows that doesn't exist anywhere else?

Jo Shmo gets a table at a gun show. he just has a private collection laid out on a table.

bill smith walks up and says "Hey Jo, whadya know? that kewl and fancy little hi-point gotta price tag?"

Jo says "Hey bill. good to see ya! Yup. $250 with no paperwork."

money and gun changes hands - it's all legal cause both guys are just 'guys' - no dealers involved. private sale.

No paperwork might not be a red flag for criminal activity, but it sure COULD be an indicator for a, lets say, gang banger, to obtain a firearm do his deeds, ditch the firearm. done and done.

 

[SoonerP226]

No paperwork might not be a red flag for criminal activity, but it sure COULD be an indicator for a, lets say, gang banger, to obtain a firearm do his deeds, ditch the firearm. done and done.

Or, as is almost always the case, it's just a couple of private, law-abiding individuals who are engaging in free intrastate commerce (if it's interstate commerce, the sale has to go through an FFL). FFLs have to follow the same rules re: NICS whether they're in their store or at a gun show; likewise, private individuals follow the same rules whether they're meeting at a gun show or the local coffee shop. The only difference between a gun show and anywhere else is the location. That's it.

 

[aviator41]

I will say this: I saw who walked out with two of the 4 guns. They both needed to pull up their pants.

nuff said

 

[jsl_pt]

Jo Shmo gets a table at a gun show. he just has a private collection laid out on a table.

bill smith walks up and says "Hey Jo, whadya know? that kewl and fancy little hi-point gotta price tag?"

Jo says "Hey bill. good to see ya! Yup. $250 with no paperwork."

money and gun changes hands - it's all legal cause both guys are just 'guys' - no dealers involved. private sale.

No paperwork might not be a red flag for criminal activity, but it sure COULD be an indicator for a, lets say, gang banger, to obtain a firearm do his deeds, ditch the firearm. done and done.

There is no loophole. This same sale is called a face to face private sale. In or out of gun show is legal, therefore by definition NO LOOPHOLE EXISTS!

Quit trying to advocate more .gov involvement where it need not be.

 

[aviator41]

agree, it's not a loophole. please don't confuse my statement as advocacy for more regulation. The question was posed "what is the loophole" - the example I provided sufficiently explains what the 'loophole' is in context of thread.

I then gave an example of how this 'loophole' has been used to allow a someone access to a firearm who would not otherwise be able to obtain one.

eliminating the private sale of firearms removes my rights because of another persons action. I am against this. I do advocate for better discerning sellers. (frankly, I see no problem with profiling either, but thats just me.) I do not wish to lose my rights in the 'hopes' that someone might not get shot. I've managed to not get shot by not associating with those that get shot at. simple.

 

[jsl_pt]

I hate to say it, but at the last two gun shows I went to, there were at least TWO separate guys at two separate tables that used the "private sale, no paperwork" as their selling point or sales pitch. I'm about a white as they come, so is my wife. She approached each table ( I was usually a table behind her ), and the firs thing out of their mouths went something like "good deal on a nice gun, practically new. no paperwork to buy" - seriously. 4 tables in total - all handguns.

I hate to say it, but the gunshow loophole not only exists, but is being exploited as a sales point. I don't imagine any of these guys would turn down a sale to anyone, regardless of what they looked like, what they were wearing, how they spoke. They were in it for the money.

My wife told me that the guy she bought my fathers day present from (A 1943 mosin) told her "Looks brand new. probably never been fired" - and no, he wasn't kidding. just wanted to make a sale. He had the rifle tagged at $245 bucks. She paid $150 because that's the max I would pay for a run of the mill mosin.) - same guy tried to use the 'no paperwork' as a selling point. When she told him that I had a C&R so paperwork wouldn't be a problem any way, he actually acted like he was offended.

Indiscriminate sellers are going to cause this loophole to get closed, causing heartache for the rest of us. There was no question as to what was inferred by the 'no paperwork' sales pitch and wink.

Uh this post of yours from earlier is everything opposite that you just said above.

 

[abajaj11]

I then gave an example of how this 'loophole' has been used to allow a someone access to a firearm who would not otherwise be able to obtain one.

eliminating the private sale of firearms removes my rights because of another persons action. I am against this. I do advocate for better discerning sellers. (frankly, I see no problem with profiling either, but thats just me.) I do not wish to lose my rights in the 'hopes' that someone might not get shot. I've managed to not get shot by not associating with those that get shot at. simple.

Gangsters will always get guns, no matter which country they are in or what the prevailing gun laws are. There is a HUGE trade in firearms in the black market across the world. The last place they will come to is private law abiding US citizens to buy their firearms. It is much cheaper and more convenient for a criminal to to buy an untraceable firearm on the street than from some law abiding citizen whose name was linked to the gun and who would immediately tell the authorities the time and place of the sale as well as identify the perp, if the gun was ever used in a crime.