Coburn getting ready to sell us out..!

[abajaj11]

How so?
Specifically, how does a background check lead to registration and why has it not led to registration thus far?

I'm just asking a question.
If you can't answer the question it's OK. I'll move along.

Please read the following thread very carefully, especially the original post:
https://www.okshooters.com/showthre...ole-quot-leads-to-registration-of-all-weapons

This should answer a lot of your questions.
Gun owners of America and NRA have both recognized the very real dangers of UBC and are strongly opposed to it.
Check this alert by GOA: http://www.gunowners.org/a01212013.htm

UBC MUST not pass or we will get registration within 6 months, IMHO.

 

[dlbleak]

What you are all arguing against is registration, not UBC.

UBC leads to total registration

 

[abajaj11]

I listened to Coburn at a local radio interview. IMHO, he wants a creation of a better infrastructure where mentally ill folks can be fed into the NICS system.
I don't believe he is trying to sell us out on a UBC.
However, he may not be AWARE of the potential danger of the UBC: that it will give POTUS and Mr. Holder the impetus they need to demand and create a registry of who owns what, because that is the only way they will be able to monitor with any degree of effectiveness at all, that the law is being followed.

IMHO, we all need to call his office and point out we are OPPOSED STRONGLY to UBC in any form, and tell his aides why. They seem clueless when I talk to them, which worries me a bit.

 

[Billybob]

I would like to ask a question to all ffl people out there.If regestation was law could the feds come to your store and find out all the people you sold guns too ?

You don't have to be a FFl to answer that question.

OSBI agents went to gun dealers and pawnshops to create a list of .40-caliber Glock owners.

[Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents knew the caliber of the guns used in the killings, so they merely checked with area gun dealers and pawnshops to determine who had bought or recently pawned .40-caliber Glocks.

"It's a typical procedure of any investigation" involving a gun, according to Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the OSBI...]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080820_12_A1_hOSBIa443762

 

[Dale00]

I listened to Coburn at a local radio interview. IMHO, he wants a creation of a better infrastructure where mentally ill folks can be fed into the NICS system.
I don't believe he is trying to sell us out on a UBC.
However, he may not be AWARE of the potential danger of the UBC: that it will give POTUS and Mr. Holder the impetus they need to demand and create a registry of who owns what, because that is the only way they will be able to monitor with any degree of effectiveness at all, that the law is being followed.

IMHO, we all need to call his office and point out we are OPPOSED STRONGLY to UBC in any form, and tell his aides why. They seem clueless when I talk to them, which worries me a bit.

So is this the correct information to convey in our calls and e-mails to Sen Coburn's office?

1. Universal Background Checks will not work. It is too easy for unstable people, like the Connecticut shooter, to steal firearms.
2. When more mass shootings occur, Democrats will either demand that universal registration be authorized by the Congress or
that an Executive Order for universal registration be issued by the President.
3. Once in place Universal registration will enable harsh taxes on firearms, safety inspections, expensive insurance, healthcare penalties or even outright confiscation or criminalization of honest gunowners.

The kicker here is that people in government believe they are the good guys and do not understand the wisdom of the founders mistrust of government.

 

[chuter]

The NRA is NOT supporting UBCs:

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/1/universal-background-checks-–-absolutely-not.aspx

Imagine a grandfather who wants to give a family shotgun to his 12-year-old grandson having to do a background check on his grandson before giving him the shotgun.

Or a friend having to do a background check on his lifetime best buddy before lending him a hunting rifle.

Or, if your mother had a prowler at her home, having to do a background check on your own mom before you could give her one of your guns for protection.

That's what "universal background checks" do. They turn traditional innocent conduct into a criminal offense. They target you, law-abiding gun owners.

Universal background checks are background checks on EVERY transfer, sale, purchase, trade, gift, rental, and loan of a firearm between any and all individuals.

All background checks must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer. Universal background checks have nothing to do with gun shows – they are about you.

It is ALREADY a federal felony to be engaged in the business of buying and selling firearms and ammunition without having federal firearm dealers license.

It is ALREADY a crime for a federally licensed dealer to sell a gun without doing a background check – that's all dealers, everywhere, including at retail stores, gun shows, flea markets or anywhere else.

Further, it is ALREADY a federal felony to sell, trade, give, lend, rent or transfer a gun to a person you know or should have known is not legally allowed to own, purchase or possess a firearm.

The penalty for selling a gun to a person who is a criminal, mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or an alcohol or drug abuser is a 10-year federal felony. That's now, today, with no changes to the law.

It is even a federal felony to submit false information on a background check form for the purpose of purchasing a firearm.

Even so, according to a 2012 report to the Department of Justice, more than 72,000 people were turned down on a gun purchase in 2010 because they didn't pass the background check. Yet, only 44 of those cases were prosecuted. Why, when criminals are caught in act of lying on the form to illegally purchase a firearm, are they not prosecuted?

On Thursday, January 10, 2013, in the White House meeting of President Obama's Gun Agenda Task Force, Vice President Joe Biden answered that question, telling NRA's Director of Federal Affairs, James Baker, that the Obama administration didn't have time to prosecute people for lying on the federal background check form.

In an article in The Daily Caller (1/18/2013) Biden said, "And to your point, Mr. Baker, regarding the lack of prosecutions on lying on Form 4473s, we simply don't have the time or manpower to prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that answers a question inaccurately."

If the Obama Administration currently doesn't have the time or manpower to prosecute those who lie on background check forms, then why do they want more background checks, more paperwork and more forms? It's backdoor gun registration.

Universal background check system legislation that we have previously seen, allows the government to keep a computerized government registry of gun owners.

In addition to the absurdity of having to do background checks on people you know are not criminals, would you like to pay up to $100 or more just to give your grandson a shotgun, or lend a hunting rifle to your best friend, or give your mom a gun for protection?

Transfer fees alone could run from $50 up. Firearms dealers, like other businesses, charge as much as they can get away with. Background check fees for a federally mandated program can be any amount they decide.

The Obama administration's gun ban agenda and universal background check proposal are unconstitutional regulatory schemes to gut the Second Amendment. These proposals, which mandate the government collection of data on lawful gun buyers and sellers, amount to universal gun registration and gun owner licensing.

This agenda focuses on peaceable citizens, not violent criminals who obtain guns on the black market to carry out unspeakable crimes already prohibited under federal and state laws. Instead of stopping crime and eliminating criminal conduct, they are creating more criminals--they are targeting you.

That's why NRA members and the nation's 100 million firearms owners will stand in solidarity and fight against these misguided and diabolical proposals that have nothing whatsoever to do with curbing criminal violence but everything to do with stripping us of our guaranteed civil rights and our freedom.

 

[BikerHT]

Let me see if I can explain this in simple terms.

Let's say that first enough lawmakers and citizens, including "gun people" feel that UBC on private sales would be a good thing, or at least no different than a BC through a FFL.

Then laws are passed requiring a BC for every firearm sale, including private sales, even on guns that we have had for decades, and there are no records of who owns those guns, even existing. That means every gun in America.

So as always, there will be those that circumvent the law, by selling guns FTF without the BC, because there is no record of ownership or anyway to trace the sale of an unregistered gun. Essentially the law is unenforceable for those who are willing to bypass it.

So, logically the next step is to require that all guns in the U. S. are registered so that the UBC law on private sales between you and your friends, neighbors, family, and anyone else you decide to sell a gun to, has some way of being enforced.

The only way to enforce the UBC law, is to know of, and have a record of, every gun that exists in the U.S..

You are correct in saying that no one at this time is pushing for registration with the UBC laws proposed, mostly because that would never get off the ground, but that is the next step in being able to actually make the law work.

That is why some refer to the "erosion" of our rights. They are taken a piece at a time so that most of the sheeple won't notice, and the next thing you know, another right is gone!

Get it yet?

You know what? For an Old Phart...this guy is a damn genius!
If they can't understand that...well, there's no hope for 'em!


Sent from HT's iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Dale00]

"Universal Background Checks" - bad name

"Mental Health Verification" - good name

"Improved Criminal Record Checks" - good name

"Safe and Secure Assurance" - good name

"With the new MCSS safeguards which the President has just signed into law, Americans can breathe a bit easier knowing that it is now much tougher for guns to fall into the hands of dangerous individuals."

"We fought to preserve your gun rights and succeeded! We defeated the Democrat's plans to impose Universal Background Checks on the American people.," Senator __________, NRA rating A+

 

[abajaj11]

So is this the correct information to convey in our calls and e-mails to Sen Coburn's office?

1. Universal Background Checks will not work. It is too easy for unstable people, like the Connecticut shooter, to steal firearms.
2. When more mass shootings occur, Democrats will either demand that universal registration be authorized by the Congress or
that an Executive Order for universal registration be issued by the President.
3. Once in place Universal registration will enable harsh taxes on firearms, safety inspections, expensive insurance, healthcare penalties or even outright confiscation or criminalization of honest gunowners.

The kicker here is that people in government believe they are the good guys and do not understand the wisdom of the founders mistrust of government.

Looks good to me.

I think the important thing is for many, many of us to call and convey our strong opposition to UBC. I like to say:
"No one wants to sell guns to criminals or the dangerously insane...but UBCs are being used a pathway to registration."
I think its important COburn's staffers realize this is a serious issue and convey it to him.
We all need to be in this together, IMHO.

 

[loudshirt]

Ask yourself: do you believe in the right "keep and bear arms" or a privilege?

If you believe it's a privilege - it does make sense that only Licensed people should be able to transfer firearms via Federal Approval (aka NICS).

I believe that most people read the Bill of Rights a bit more literally.

NICS is not a license. Also with rights become responsibilities. How would a background check on any sale other than to family be that much different than the same background check every time you purchase from a FFL?

Will it solve all gun violence problems? No. The only way to solve that would be if every single gun and piece of gun manufacturing machinery vaporized at the exact same time.