He removed the gun from you? Thats not allowed.
I don't get pulled over very often (it helps if you don't drive like a jackass), but when I do, I always hand over both my OKDL and my SDA license. In every case, the officer has asked if I was carrying, and I always answered truthfully (normally I have one in the center console), which is almost always as far as it goes.
There were two times it wasn't--once, not long after the SDA went into effect and before the procedures had been finalized, I got pulled over on the Turner Turnpike. After I informed the Trooper that I was carrying and that my Baby Browning was in my back pocket, he asked me to get out of the car, then asked me to put my hands on my head while he extracted the pistol. He was very polite and professional about it--but it just about freaked out my mother, whom I was taking to Tulsa.
The second time was just a few years ago; I got stopped in a training stop for a show pony (yeah, right, you stopped me because my fog lights were on in inclement conditions). The difference in professionalism between the OHP and this twerp was striking; she was terse, and ordered me to keep my hands on the steering wheel since I'd admitted to having a gun in the car. When she came back she said she'd noticed some fog over by the interstate (yeah, right), so I was free to go. Her FTO wasn't doing a very good job, IMHO...
Its not illegal to run your fog lights, anytime.
If you're replying to me, this was in late '96 or early '97, when there were still a lot of unsettled questions relating to policies and procedures--as I recall, even the OHP's procedures varied from troop to troop.
Those two incidents are notable in that they are different from the norm; all the others, including roadside conferences with OUPD, Norman PD, OHP, and Texas DPS, have been "do you have it on you? Oh, OK."
With one exception, every interaction I have had with police has been a huge non-event. In most of those it was like I had just told them "hey I'm wearing socks". I did have one not real good interaction with an OHP. I was actually shocked by his manner.
It was an insurance checkpoint. I was about 3rd in line so I went ahead and leaned over to he glove box to get my insurance card ready ANSI got my DL and my SDA permit out. When it is my "turn" the OHP officer was really rude and says "well did you get everything taken care of"? I just said yes officer. When he sees myth SDA permit he says "well where is it?" I told him it was in the console of my car. "Is it loaded?" I reply that it is. He then goes on to lecture me about how you can't carry a loaded handgun with an SDA permit and that he could arrest me etc. rather than argue I just said that I wasn't aware of that. He said that he would let it "slide this time". I thanked him and was on my way. On the flip side, another time I get pulled over for speeding Ina construction zone while running late for a job interview. OHP officer and I end up talking guns for 10 minutes and I'm even later to interview. Really nice officer.
Like I said earlier, nearly all of my experiences with leo have been great
@toehanus
It was an insurance checkpoint. I was about 3rd in line so I went ahead and leaned over to he glove box to get my insurance card ready ANSI got my DL and my SDA permit out. When it is my "turn" the OHP officer was really rude and says "well did you get everything taken care of"? I just said yes officer. When he sees myth SDA permit he says "well where is it?" I told him it was in the console of my car. "Is it loaded?" I reply that it is. He then goes on to lecture me about how you can't carry a loaded handgun with an SDA permit and that he could arrest me etc. rather than argue I just said that I wasn't aware of that. He said that he would let it "slide this time". I thanked him and was on my way. On the flip side, another time I get pulled over for speeding Ina construction zone while running late for a job interview. OHP officer and I end up talking guns for 10 minutes and I'm even later to interview. Really nice officer.
Like I said earlier, nearly all of my experiences with leo have been great
@toehanus
in the event of an arrest, detainment or routine traffic stop, the SDA says if you are carrying you are required to: 1) show
OK ID 2) show Handgun Lic and 3) tell LEO you are carrying.
the fine for not doing this is $100 and a misdemeanor, it use to be $500. the law says that you must inform the LEO that you have the gun 'at the first opportunity'.
it also says that if you do not have your gun on you, that you are not required to inform to tell LEO that you have a HL (the lic is not called concealed carry anymore but it is called a handgun lic per the SDA)
it does not say that handing the LEO you HL license 'infers' anything or sufficient to satisfy the law.
the SDA also says that nothing in this section shall authorize an LEO to inspect a properly concealed or unconcealed weapon without probable cause that a crime has been committed. I guess a traffic violation is crime??? would this qualify as a crime and then allow the LEO to inspect or handle the weapon?
OK ID 2) show Handgun Lic and 3) tell LEO you are carrying.
the fine for not doing this is $100 and a misdemeanor, it use to be $500. the law says that you must inform the LEO that you have the gun 'at the first opportunity'.
it also says that if you do not have your gun on you, that you are not required to inform to tell LEO that you have a HL (the lic is not called concealed carry anymore but it is called a handgun lic per the SDA)
it does not say that handing the LEO you HL license 'infers' anything or sufficient to satisfy the law.
the SDA also says that nothing in this section shall authorize an LEO to inspect a properly concealed or unconcealed weapon without probable cause that a crime has been committed. I guess a traffic violation is crime??? would this qualify as a crime and then allow the LEO to inspect or handle the weapon?
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I did not know who Ayoob was. My one time, back in 2000, OHP, I had my hands at 10 and 2. I simply said something to the affect of "Officer I have a license to carry concealed and I do have a firearm in the vehicle, what would you like for me to do." Went super smooth.
Now in TX, we are required to tell the officer but there is no penalty for not telling. I still intend to behave as I did in 2000, if need be. *fingers crossed*
Now in TX, we are required to tell the officer but there is no penalty for not telling. I still intend to behave as I did in 2000, if need be. *fingers crossed*
In the City of Tulsa, you may use two (2) white lights on the front of the vehicle at any time.
If you are using your fog lights and your headlights, it is illegal.
We do not enforce the state's traffic laws but I believe the state has a similarly worded statute.
Michael Brown
Close, but not quite... Notification is all that's required. Tell them you are licensed, and currently armed. They will ask for the documents if they want them.
§21-1290.8.C said:
Wow, Michael, that means that every Chrysler 300 is unlawful in Tulsa. The lights are controlled automatically, and the fog lights and headlights are on all of the time. Is that a Tulsa ordinance, or a state statute?
LL
LL
There is some incorrect legal advice in this thread at needs to be corrected:
Actually no, there is no law requiring you to tell anyone where the gun is. However, to state the obvious, when you are pulled over, usually it is because you were caught doing something you could get a ticket for. Refusing to say where the gun is does not help your chances of getting a warning instead of a ticket! Also, the cop may try to come up with some sort of justification for a search. Even if it is of dubious legality, you have to file a 1983 suit to challenge it. Anyway, a refusal of this sort could complicate your traffic stop, so I wouldn't normally recommend it... Unless you don't care if you get a ticket, get held up on the side of the road, or get hassled by the cop.
As for whether handing a cop your CCL counts as notification, there are no OK cases out there that I know of that deal with the issue. It is typically treated as "good enough" by the cops. It probably wouldn't be an issue unless the cop sees you as being a jerk and is just trying to come up with something to pin on you (like might happen if you refuse to tell him where the gun is for instance!), but with the wording of the statute, if you want to be absolutely, unassailably sure you are in compliance, you should notify the cop verbally. Mas Ayoob gives some great advice, and he usually gives the disclaimer that your state's law may vary. That may apply in this instance.
Actually no, there is no law requiring you to tell anyone where the gun is. However, to state the obvious, when you are pulled over, usually it is because you were caught doing something you could get a ticket for. Refusing to say where the gun is does not help your chances of getting a warning instead of a ticket! Also, the cop may try to come up with some sort of justification for a search. Even if it is of dubious legality, you have to file a 1983 suit to challenge it. Anyway, a refusal of this sort could complicate your traffic stop, so I wouldn't normally recommend it... Unless you don't care if you get a ticket, get held up on the side of the road, or get hassled by the cop.
As for whether handing a cop your CCL counts as notification, there are no OK cases out there that I know of that deal with the issue. It is typically treated as "good enough" by the cops. It probably wouldn't be an issue unless the cop sees you as being a jerk and is just trying to come up with something to pin on you (like might happen if you refuse to tell him where the gun is for instance!), but with the wording of the statute, if you want to be absolutely, unassailably sure you are in compliance, you should notify the cop verbally. Mas Ayoob gives some great advice, and he usually gives the disclaimer that your state's law may vary. That may apply in this instance.
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