December Gun Shows at Okc Fairgrounds

[KipK]

I may be the only one with his mother in tow. She has dementia and stays home while I'm at work. So, I take her along when I can...

 

[KipK]

Buying and then selling a gun ‘strictly for profit’ means you’re doing business selling guns which requires an FFL. That’s why they’ll offer double what you just paid, you take the sale and therefore you sold the gun for profit, without an FFL.

Thanks for the explanation Matt.

 

[sherrick13]

Thanks for the explanation Matt.

Except "selling for profit" isn't the correct term. The term the ATF uses is "engaged in the business". There is a difference.

Justice Department Proposes New Regulation to Update Definition of “Engaged in the Business” as a Firearms Dealer | ATF

WASHINGTON – The Justice Department today announced it has submitted to the Federal Register a notice of proposed rulemaking that would clarify the circumstances in which a person is “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms and thus required to obtain a license and run background checks.

www.atf.gov

The example in the OP should not rise to the level of 'engaged in the business' in any sane courtroom. I'm not saying all courtrooms are sane, nor all ATF agents however.

 

[Matt Giroux]

Except "selling for profit" isn't the correct term. The term the ATF uses is "engaged in the business". There is a difference.

Justice Department Proposes New Regulation to Update Definition of “Engaged in the Business” as a Firearms Dealer | ATF

WASHINGTON – The Justice Department today announced it has submitted to the Federal Register a notice of proposed rulemaking that would clarify the circumstances in which a person is “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms and thus required to obtain a license and run background checks.

www.atf.gov

The example in the OP should not rise to the level of 'engaged in the business' in any sane courtroom. I'm not saying all courtrooms are sane, nor all ATF agents however.

Thanks for the clarification, I knew it had to do with business but couldn't remember their exact written wording. As with everything else they use in their rule book engaged in the business leaves plenty of room for their interpretation.

 

[sherrick13]

A little more on the subject.

Engaged in business Definition | Law Insider

Sample Contracts and Business Agreements

www.lawinsider.com

Engaged in business means as applied to a dealer in firearms a person, firm, partnership, or

Engaged in business means as applied to a dealer in firearms a person, firm, partnership, or corporation that devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through repetitive purchase or resale of firearms, but such term shall not involve a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.


That is the current interpretation they are trying to change. Even after the change I would think it still would have to be more than just one transaction however.

 

[okcBob]

I seem to remember reading something during the Obama administration, they changed it to -buying a firearm with the intent to sell- for profit (flipping), even one gun would qualify for “in the business”. This may have changed back to the above quote during the Trump admin & now the Biden admin is trying to restrict it again.

 

[Matt Giroux]

I seem to remember reading something during the Obama administration, they changed it to -buying a firearm with the intent to sell- for profit (flipping), even one gun would qualify for “in the business”. This may have changed back to the above quote during the Trump admin & now the Biden admin is trying to restrict it again.

It’s one of the first questions you answer on the 4473 when you fill it out

 

[KipK]

I may be the only one with his mother in tow. She has dementia and stays home while I'm at work. So, I take her along when I can...

Well, didn't bring my mother. She would not have enjoyed it. I on the other hand didn't really enjoy it either. But, I am glad that I went. Some of the exhibitors were cool to talk with. The prices were mostly high. Just, like someone had said they would be. But, I did get to see and hold things. So, it was a learning experience which is what life is supposed to be about. And the other individual who said basically to stay clear of the food was right. The Pepsi was OK but the pretzel was stale and the cheese wasn't any better.
I didn't see anyone wearing an OS shirt...

 

[KipK]

Well, didn't bring my mother. She would not have enjoyed it. I on the other hand didn't really enjoy it either. But, I am glad that I went. Some of the exhibitors were cool to talk with. The prices were mostly high. Just, like someone had said they would be. But, I did get to see and hold things. So, it was a learning experience which is what life is supposed to be about. And the other individual who said basically to stay clear of the food was right. The Pepsi was OK but the pretzel was stale and the cheese wasn't any better.
I didn't see anyone wearing an OS shirt...

Furthermore, after seeing the guns available and the prices, I am very happy with the one I purchased a few weeks ago. Thank you my friend.

 

[rockchalk06]

I may be the only one with his mother in tow. She has dementia and stays home while I'm at work. So, I take her along when I can...

Mines 3300 miles away and I'd give anything to drag mine somewhere! Kudos