Deputy assigned to Florida school 'never went in' during shooting, sheriff says
- Thread starter Dave70968
- Start Date
After an evening of reading some chillingly illogical online discussions among educators that I collaborate with I just turned on CNN to hear Don Lemon explain how the deputies failure to act is evidence that more guns would do nothing to help this situation.
I'm lost for words.
I'm lost for words.
I read (somewhere?) that while intelligence recognizes its limits, idiocy knows no bounds.
I want to join in in castigating this deputy who was so close to retirement already. I agree, I think he should have gone in to try to challenge the shooter. Of course, who knows how many there were? He could have been walking into a shooting gallery with 3 or 4 shooters, who knows? Does he have a duty to charge in without thinking, without information, to almost certain death? I mean, that's the worst case scenario, right, you have to assume there are several shooters, and you're signing your own death warrant.
I want to join in and call him a coward and a worthless waste of a badge, and I want to say he is responsible for the death count being higher than it could have been. I want to. I don't know... it's just an untenable situation. Military, police, other law enforcement like federal agents, etc., have a hard job. And lots of cops/LEOs would probably charge in during an active shooter event. But some would be more prudent, "wait for backup", etc. I don't know the answer. I feel sorry for him (the deputy) for having to make that choice, and at the same time I am angry that he chose not to intervene.
How many of you would intervene? How many of us? I'm not asking, "If you were a law enforcement officer," I'm asking as a regular Joe. You're walking by the school, you see kids running out and you are carrying your concealed carry firearm, you hear kids screaming that someone is shooting people inside.
What would you do?
I have been vilified on this very board for saying I would like to think I would step up and protect someone else with my personal weapon, as something a MAN should do - protect those who are in need. I've been told, "You're not a cop." "You're a vigilante." "It's not our place, let the police handle it, protect only you and your own." "They don't give you a permit to act like a cop." Similar stuff.
What should I do? What should you do? What should we all do? Are you willing to put your life on the line to stop someone else from being harmed? Family, friends? What about a total stranger? Someone you've never met?
Seriously... I'm not defending this cop. We all know how we individually feel... I'm just asking what would YOU do? At your kids' school? At ANY school, if you don't have kids there? At any public place, WalMart, a restaurant, a gas station... what places do you have a duty to act (as a man, as a human, as an adult, a Christian, whatever), or a moral imperative in your own heart to step up and place your life on the line to defend not just pother people, but just what is freaking RIGHT?
Where's the damn manual for how to handle this stuff? Seriously, did it get lost with the manual on how to be a husband, and how to be a parent? Or is there one? Is there somewhere we can turn for the answers?
What do you think?
I want to join in and call him a coward and a worthless waste of a badge, and I want to say he is responsible for the death count being higher than it could have been. I want to. I don't know... it's just an untenable situation. Military, police, other law enforcement like federal agents, etc., have a hard job. And lots of cops/LEOs would probably charge in during an active shooter event. But some would be more prudent, "wait for backup", etc. I don't know the answer. I feel sorry for him (the deputy) for having to make that choice, and at the same time I am angry that he chose not to intervene.
How many of you would intervene? How many of us? I'm not asking, "If you were a law enforcement officer," I'm asking as a regular Joe. You're walking by the school, you see kids running out and you are carrying your concealed carry firearm, you hear kids screaming that someone is shooting people inside.
What would you do?
I have been vilified on this very board for saying I would like to think I would step up and protect someone else with my personal weapon, as something a MAN should do - protect those who are in need. I've been told, "You're not a cop." "You're a vigilante." "It's not our place, let the police handle it, protect only you and your own." "They don't give you a permit to act like a cop." Similar stuff.
What should I do? What should you do? What should we all do? Are you willing to put your life on the line to stop someone else from being harmed? Family, friends? What about a total stranger? Someone you've never met?
Seriously... I'm not defending this cop. We all know how we individually feel... I'm just asking what would YOU do? At your kids' school? At ANY school, if you don't have kids there? At any public place, WalMart, a restaurant, a gas station... what places do you have a duty to act (as a man, as a human, as an adult, a Christian, whatever), or a moral imperative in your own heart to step up and place your life on the line to defend not just pother people, but just what is freaking RIGHT?
Where's the damn manual for how to handle this stuff? Seriously, did it get lost with the manual on how to be a husband, and how to be a parent? Or is there one? Is there somewhere we can turn for the answers?
What do you think?
I think as a "school resource deputy," the man should have been more proactive during a school shooting. Apparently so does the sheriff, who suspended him without pay.
As for the rest... I don't think there's a good answer that fits every scenario.
As for the rest... I don't think there's a good answer that fits every scenario.
I don't know. You know, that's the thing. It's easy to sit here behind the monitor and condemn this man for his inaction. Surely, he should never be a law enforcement officer again.
Having said that, human survival instinct is very strong. We don't always control all our mental faculties. I'm sure we've all had that emotional situation, we just couldn't control ourselves. To push yourself into possible death to save others is not a natural act. Self-preservation is how we're programmed.
So i don't condemn the man. I think he definitely shouldn't be a law enforcement officer, and i think it is tragic he discovered he simply doesn't have the mental ability at the worst possible time.
I would like to think that i would jump heroically to help defend others in such a situation, but i can't say. First of all, i've never been shot at in my life. My first instinct would be to protect my family and myself. Of course, i'm not a law enforcement officer.
But it's one thing to sit here and ponder what i would do. It's another thing entirely to do it.
A good example is my fear of heights. I can imagine in my head being that high, no problem. But if you actually put me up on that crane, with nothing supporting me, i would probably freeze up and be unable to act. I'd possibly panic.
Even though i can imagine being that high, and convince myself it would be no problem to be at x height, i know myself better. I've experienced being high, i've flown in planes and i've been on water rides hundreds of feet in the air. I've even repelled off of a 150 ft tower in Georgia. It is a known quantity, my fear. My reaction is predictable.
But i've never been shot at. I've never been in a situation where i had to use my gun to defend myself. Will i act? Or will i simply panic and make the situation worse? Will i freeze in fear? Run away? I don't know. Because i've never been in that situation.
i feel that sometimes people are too quick to judge others in situations they've never been in, and did not experience first hand. It's one thing to read the facts dryly, another to experience the event.
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Wouldn't he be liable for civil action though. It's hard to say a reasonable person with the same training and experience would act in the same manner.
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Good questions Doc. I don't know the answers either, but I do know I want the option to fight and a chance to win the fight. Everything I'm reading and watching tonight is saying I shouldn't be able to do that.
I honestly do not know how’d I’d react, I do know that as a regular citizen with less immunity from my mistakes (criminal or civil), I’d have additional concerns that the resource officer wouldn’t.
I wouldn’t get paid leave, WOULD have to secure a competent lawyer (no union helping me), and then pray I get a pro2A judge and/or jury. And that’s all IF I’m not gunned down by the officially trained, certified, and contracted police officer as he’s standing outside, watching me run across a campus that has an unidentified shooter, while carrying a gun.
It’d definitely be a tough decision, one I wouldn’t want to ever have to make, and certainly would never intentionally sign up or receive a paycheck for.
I wouldn’t get paid leave, WOULD have to secure a competent lawyer (no union helping me), and then pray I get a pro2A judge and/or jury. And that’s all IF I’m not gunned down by the officially trained, certified, and contracted police officer as he’s standing outside, watching me run across a campus that has an unidentified shooter, while carrying a gun.
It’d definitely be a tough decision, one I wouldn’t want to ever have to make, and certainly would never intentionally sign up or receive a paycheck for.
Deep discussions here. Very deep. Disturbing too. It sure does make you think though. I have not been shot at as a civilian either. But I have been on the receiving end while on active duty. It is a shizz your pants moment out of your life. Nothing compares to the sudden and immediate realization that somebody is trying to shoot you. But, in that situation, I half way expected it and was prepared for it. I thank the Good Lord all the time that I was either the better shot, or maybe just more lucky than the guy trying to shoot me.
Totally different scenario; like the time a year or so back, the bank inside the Walmart on SW3rd off MacArthur had just been robbed, and the perp came running out the door waving his pistol at people as he made a mad dash to the get away car. I missed the happenings by just a few minutes. I was conceal carrying a pistol, and went in the same door the bad guy had just run out of; what if I had been a few minutes earlier, and as I was walking in, he was running out? What if he had shoved his pistol in my face and threatened to shoot me? What if I just happened to see the crook running out with a bag full of money and a pistol, but he wasn't a definite threat to me at that moment? What if I stopped the crime and maybe prevented him from shooting the old lady just getting put of her car with a handi-capped tag by shooting the bad guy...in the back? Too many what ifs...about the best you can do is to be prepared to act, within the scope and confines of the law and your own moral compass and hope and pray that you have the skills, mindset, and luck to win out if push come to shove.
Totally different scenario; like the time a year or so back, the bank inside the Walmart on SW3rd off MacArthur had just been robbed, and the perp came running out the door waving his pistol at people as he made a mad dash to the get away car. I missed the happenings by just a few minutes. I was conceal carrying a pistol, and went in the same door the bad guy had just run out of; what if I had been a few minutes earlier, and as I was walking in, he was running out? What if he had shoved his pistol in my face and threatened to shoot me? What if I just happened to see the crook running out with a bag full of money and a pistol, but he wasn't a definite threat to me at that moment? What if I stopped the crime and maybe prevented him from shooting the old lady just getting put of her car with a handi-capped tag by shooting the bad guy...in the back? Too many what ifs...about the best you can do is to be prepared to act, within the scope and confines of the law and your own moral compass and hope and pray that you have the skills, mindset, and luck to win out if push come to shove.
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