Deputy assigned to Florida school 'never went in' during shooting, sheriff says

[druryj]

...to add on a bit; I believe that the deputy was in the “combat zone” he was assigned to while Cruz was inside the school shooting people. Thus, I believe he had to be, or surely needed to be in the proper mindset while on duty. Surely, there was a plan in place on what a LEO is to do in a situation like this? Certainly, we can hope and maybe assume that the plan was to “address the killer”, as the sheriff said. What if the plan said that the LEO on duty was to wait for back up? I’d sure like to get my eyes on that contingency plan before I completely condemn the deputy for failing to go in and address the killer. Of course, many of us know that when rounds start flying, plans often go out the window, at least in terms of tactics. Dammit, I want to see the plan.


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[John6185]

Perhaps the worst punishment the guard will have is that he has to live with the memory of what he didn't do and the end results for the rest of his life. I wonder what his wife and children think?

 

[saddlebum]

I want to join in in castigating this deputy who was so close to retirement already. I agree, I think he should have gone in to try to challenge the shooter. Of course, who knows how many there were? He could have been walking into a shooting gallery with 3 or 4 shooters, who knows? Does he have a duty to charge in without thinking, without information, to almost certain death? I mean, that's the worst case scenario, right, you have to assume there are several shooters, and you're signing your own death warrant.

I want to join in and call him a coward and a worthless waste of a badge, and I want to say he is responsible for the death count being higher than it could have been. I want to. I don't know... it's just an untenable situation. Military, police, other law enforcement like federal agents, etc., have a hard job. And lots of cops/LEOs would probably charge in during an active shooter event. But some would be more prudent, "wait for backup", etc. I don't know the answer. I feel sorry for him (the deputy) for having to make that choice, and at the same time I am angry that he chose not to intervene.


How many of you would intervene? How many of us? I'm not asking, "If you were a law enforcement officer," I'm asking as a regular Joe. You're walking by the school, you see kids running out and you are carrying your concealed carry firearm, you hear kids screaming that someone is shooting people inside.

What would you do?

I have been vilified on this very board for saying I would like to think I would step up and protect someone else with my personal weapon, as something a MAN should do - protect those who are in need. I've been told, "You're not a cop." "You're a vigilante." "It's not our place, let the police handle it, protect only you and your own." "They don't give you a permit to act like a cop." Similar stuff.

What should I do? What should you do? What should we all do? Are you willing to put your life on the line to stop someone else from being harmed? Family, friends? What about a total stranger? Someone you've never met?

Seriously... I'm not defending this cop. We all know how we individually feel... I'm just asking what would YOU do? At your kids' school? At ANY school, if you don't have kids there? At any public place, WalMart, a restaurant, a gas station... what places do you have a duty to act (as a man, as a human, as an adult, a Christian, whatever), or a moral imperative in your own heart to step up and place your life on the line to defend not just pother people, but just what is freaking RIGHT?

Where's the damn manual for how to handle this stuff? Seriously, did it get lost with the manual on how to be a husband, and how to be a parent? Or is there one? Is there somewhere we can turn for the answers?

What do you think?

I want to agree , the duties of the job were to protect the kids. If he felt he was too old or too near retirement to risk his life protecting the students he should have request a nice desk job in the property room so he could finish his career realitivety safely

 

[donner]

...to add on a bit; I believe that the deputy was in the “combat zone” he was assigned to while Cruz was inside the school shooting people. Thus, I believe he had to be, or surely needed to be in the proper mindset while on duty. Surely, there was a plan in place on what a LEO is to do in a situation like this? Certainly, we can hope and maybe assume that the plan was to “address the killer”, as the sheriff said. What if the plan said that the LEO on duty was to wait for back up? I’d sure like to get my eyes on that contingency plan before I completely condemn the deputy for failing to go in and address the killer. Of course, many of us know that when rounds start flying, plans often go out the window, at least in terms of tactics. Dammit, I want to see the plan.


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i wonder if any part of the plan (or his mindset) had to do with being under-gunned compared to the shooter. He had to have been wondering if the shooter had a rifle and if he should wait for better-armed backup to arrive before engagement.

 

[264killer]

Well he could have lived or died a hero instead of a coward.

 

[Okie4570]

i wonder if any part of the plan (or his mindset) had to do with being under-gunned compared to the shooter. He had to have been wondering if the shooter had a rifle and if he should wait for better-armed backup to arrive before engagement.

I don't know any LE that would have assessed his firepower from the back door with the shooter location unknown. I'm not going to render judgment on him because I don't know what their policy was, but.......... He hasn't tried to defend his actions, nor has anyone else at the SO so I'm guessing he was probably supposed to engage, or at least assess and report finding to LE that was on the way. He surely was in radio contact with other LE.

Who knows, he enters, and maybe only gets off one shot, and Cruz panics........ends his own life like so many others have. I am curious as why to Cruz quit shooting and left, he could have killed dozens and dozens.

 

[NikatKimber]

I want to join in in castigating this deputy who was so close to retirement already. I agree, I think he should have gone in to try to challenge the shooter. Of course, who knows how many there were? He could have been walking into a shooting gallery with 3 or 4 shooters, who knows? Does he have a duty to charge in without thinking, without information, to almost certain death? I mean, that's the worst case scenario, right, you have to assume there are several shooters, and you're signing your own death warrant.

I want to join in and call him a coward and a worthless waste of a badge, and I want to say he is responsible for the death count being higher than it could have been. I want to. I don't know... it's just an untenable situation. Military, police, other law enforcement like federal agents, etc., have a hard job. And lots of cops/LEOs would probably charge in during an active shooter event. But some would be more prudent, "wait for backup", etc. I don't know the answer. I feel sorry for him (the deputy) for having to make that choice, and at the same time I am angry that he chose not to intervene.


How many of you would intervene? How many of us? I'm not asking, "If you were a law enforcement officer," I'm asking as a regular Joe. You're walking by the school, you see kids running out and you are carrying your concealed carry firearm, you hear kids screaming that someone is shooting people inside.

What would you do?

Run in to protect the innocents.

I have been vilified on this very board for saying I would like to think I would step up and protect someone else with my personal weapon, as something a MAN should do - protect those who are in need. I've been told, "You're not a cop." "You're a vigilante." "It's not our place, let the police handle it, protect only you and your own." "They don't give you a permit to act like a cop." Similar stuff.

What should I do? What should you do? What should we all do?

Run in to protect the innocents.

Are you willing to put your life on the line to stop someone else from being harmed?

Yes.

Family,

Yes!!

friends?

Yes.

What about a total stranger?

Yes.

Someone you've never met?

Yes.

Seriously... I'm not defending this cop. We all know how we individually feel... I'm just asking what would YOU do? At your kids' school? At ANY school, if you don't have kids there? At any public place, WalMart, a restaurant, a gas station... what places do you have a duty to act (as a man, as a human, as an adult, a Christian, whatever), or a moral imperative in your own heart to step up and place your life on the line to defend not just pother people, but just what is freaking RIGHT?

At some point this is actually two questions: What is Legal? and What does my conscience require?

As to what is legal, I don't always know.

As to my conscience? If I KNOW what is going on, and can do something about it, I don't think I could bear to stand by and watch.

Where's the damn manual for how to handle this stuff? Seriously, did it get lost with the manual on how to be a husband, and how to be a parent? Or is there one? Is there somewhere we can turn for the answers?

What do you think?

We will have to as concealed carry holders (sheepdogs?) make a decision and stand by it.

All this to say, "This is my determination of what I will do."

Will I? In the face of "certain death" in this case? I don't know. But I HAVE considered, and I HAVE made the determination that if I can, I will defend those who cannot or will not defend themselves.

 

[NikatKimber]

I'll add this: every officer/agency I've talked to since Virginia Tech has said that their policy now is to enter right away.

Some may wait for a second officer, but none of them wait for the "big guns" to arrive.

I've also heard (not confirmed for myself yet) that he had identified the shooter, and given a physical description. So he had a good idea who he was up against.

 

[caojyn]

Sheriff Israel "I am devastated. Sick to my stomach. He never went in...Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."

peterson was allowed to resign after being suspended

 

[Neanderthal]

He's a gutless piece of crap. He's not some random stranger off of the street who didn't engage the bad guy, it was his chosen profession.