Dogs and Rattlesnakes

[RETOKSQUID]

Doc called about 8am this morning. He said Rooster did much better overnight than he expected and was in good shape this morning. He needs to keep him on fluids thru the morning then we can bring him home early this afternoon. Great news!

Thanks for all the good thoughts for Rooster.


View attachment 507849

Awesome news

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

Has anyone tried the “rattlesnake vaccine” for dogs? I have a friend who has a place in the Wichita Mountains, and lives there on and off year round. She started vaccinating her dogs a few years ago and SHE seems to think it’s worth it..dog will still have symptoms, but not likely to die or need Vet care…

I looked into that in 2016 or thereabouts right after moving to Idaho. Rattlesnakes were plentiful where we lived. At the time we were quoted a cost of about $600 for the first year and $200 to $300 for the yearly shots. I don't know if it was something new and that accounted for the high cost or what. But we were also told they'd still need basically the same treatment if they were bit. I wasn't sure why go to the expense of the vaccine if they still needed the same treatment. The vet did say it would buy time to get the treatment.

I talked about it to the doc yesterday and he quoted me $25 per shot, two the first year. That's far more reasonable. He also said they might need the same treatment, though, but he thought it made treatment of a snakebite somewhat more effective. But he said that was just anecdotal and not supported by any studies.

I did read this: (source: https://www.snakebitefoundation.org...erts-do-not-recommend-the-rattlesnake-vaccine)

The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) recently released a statement highlighting the lack of evidence of vaccine (toxoid) efficacy. Read It Here on page 9 under Rattlesnake Toxoid..

Key points from the AAHA’s statement:

1. There is NO published data supporting the efficacy of the vaccine in dogs.
2. In a study that was performed in mice, where mice were given 50-1,500 TIMES the dose of the toxoid given to dogs during routine vaccination, survival following exposure to snake venom was still not guaranteed, and some vaccinated mice actually died or required euthanasia earlier than unvaccinated mice exposed to the same amount of venom.
3. Adverse reactions, including anaphylaxis, have been reported in vaccinated dogs.
4. Though the manufacturers make claims of cross-protection (protection from envenomation by pit viper species other than the western diamondback rattlesnake, the species used in the production of the toxoid), there are no data to support this claim.

“Veterinarians choosing to use this toxoid should be aware of the lack of peer-reviewed published data. Polyvalent antivenin therapy is an alternative to vaccination in suspect cases of rattlesnake bite.”
- American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA)

The vaccine did not prove effective in a retrospective study looking at 272 cases of rattlesnake envenomations in dogs. Read It Here.

Key findings from the study:

1. There was no evidence that vaccination lessened morbidity or mortality.
2. No measurable benefit could be identified associated with rattlesnake vaccination.

From this case series: “Vaccination for protection of the general canine population from rattlesnake envenomation cannot be recommended by these authors.”

Furthermore, the rattlesnake vaccine toxoid may predispose snakebitten dogs to anaphylaxis by providing the necessary sensitizing exposure to snake venom antigens. Read It Here.

Key findings from the study:

1. There are no peer-reviewed publications providing evidence of clinical efficacy in snakebitten dogs.
2. Anaphylaxis requires prior sensitization to an antigen; it is proposed that repeated vaccinations with the rattlesnake toxoid vaccine serve as a sensitization event to snake venom.

From the authors: “These dogs had previously been vaccinated with the C. atrox toxoid vaccine on more than one occasion, which may have served as the initial sensitization required for the development of anaphylaxis.”

 

[jackinok09]

Use those ones you killed to train other dogs! Beg borrow or steal an electric shock collar. Cut the head off the snake and lay body out where dog can see it. When dog gets close shock the sh..t out of him. Won't take long and you'll seeing him jump every time he sees or smells one. Watch your dog when your out or hunting etc you'll see him jump to avoid one. Could save you and your dog. Grandpa said If you simply start fawning over it it simply thinks it's getting extra attention and won't learn. Always worked for me when I was raising dogs.

 

[okcBob]

Good news!

 

[DRC458]

So glad to hear!

 

[psimp]

I looked into that in 2016 or thereabouts right after moving to Idaho. Rattlesnakes were plentiful where we lived. At the time we were quoted a cost of about $600 for the first year and $200 to $300 for the yearly shots. I don't know if it was something new and that accounted for the high cost or what. But we were also told they'd still need basically the same treatment if they were bit. I wasn't sure why go to the expense of the vaccine if they still needed the same treatment. The vet did say it would buy time to get the treatment.

I talked about it to the doc yesterday and he quoted me $25 per shot, two the first year. That's far more reasonable. He also said they might need the same treatment, though, but he thought it made treatment of a snakebite somewhat more effective. But he said that was just anecdotal and not supported by any studies.

I did read this: (source: https://www.snakebitefoundation.org...erts-do-not-recommend-the-rattlesnake-vaccine)

The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) recently released a statement highlighting the lack of evidence of vaccine (toxoid) efficacy. Read It Here on page 9 under Rattlesnake Toxoid..

Key points from the AAHA’s statement:

1. There is NO published data supporting the efficacy of the vaccine in dogs.
2. In a study that was performed in mice, where mice were given 50-1,500 TIMES the dose of the toxoid given to dogs during routine vaccination, survival following exposure to snake venom was still not guaranteed, and some vaccinated mice actually died or required euthanasia earlier than unvaccinated mice exposed to the same amount of venom.
3. Adverse reactions, including anaphylaxis, have been reported in vaccinated dogs.
4. Though the manufacturers make claims of cross-protection (protection from envenomation by pit viper species other than the western diamondback rattlesnake, the species used in the production of the toxoid), there are no data to support this claim.

The vaccine did not prove effective in a retrospective study looking at 272 cases of rattlesnake envenomations in dogs. Read It Here.

Key findings from the study:

1. There was no evidence that vaccination lessened morbidity or mortality.
2. No measurable benefit could be identified associated with rattlesnake vaccination.

Furthermore, the rattlesnake vaccine toxoid may predispose snakebitten dogs to anaphylaxis by providing the necessary sensitizing exposure to snake venom antigens. Read It Here.

Key findings from the study:

1. There are no peer-reviewed publications providing evidence of clinical efficacy in snakebitten dogs.
2. Anaphylaxis requires prior sensitization to an antigen; it is proposed that repeated vaccinations with the rattlesnake toxoid vaccine serve as a sensitization event to snake venom.

I figured you were on top of it, and your responses all make sense.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

You have a mess of chicken laying there!

There was a discussion on the forum some time ago about the effectiveness of .410 in bird shot sizes. Those two were shot with #8 .410 shells. Pretty much removed 2 or 3 inches from the middle of the one on the left. I can assure anyone it's adequate for snakes. I know these are small snakes but I've shot much larger rattlers (up to 3 or 4 feet long and substantial girth) with the same shot/gun in Idaho with pretty much the same effect.

I guess the point is, small birdshot in .410 can be useful for more than just plinking. And it's the cheapest .410 around that I can find. Might not wanna try it on a grizzly, but for snakes it works just fine.

 

[tynyphil]

There was a discussion on the forum some time ago about the effectiveness of .410 in bird shot sizes. Those two were shot with #8 .410 shells. Pretty much removed 2 or 3 inches from the middle of the one on the left. I can assure anyone it's adequate for snakes. I know these are small snakes but I've shot much larger rattlers (up to 3 or 4 feet long and substantial girth) with the same shot/gun in Idaho with pretty much the same effect.

I guess the point is, small birdshot in .410 can be useful for more than just plinking. And it's the cheapest .410 around that I can find. Might not wanna try it on a grizzly, but for snakes it works just fine.

Yes. that has been my go to gun on our Pygmy Rattlers. I carry the Judge whenever out there with 410 and 45 alternating in the cylinder with the 410 "up first".

 

[jackinok09]

I carry sometimes one of those bond arms snakeslayers. 410 has always worked for me, usually reload with #9 shot. Oddly though I think bond arms still recommends those 45cal shot loads. Says 410 tears them up too much ?

 

[GnometownHero]

CCI makes a 45 Colt shot capsule loaded with #4 shot that patterns better than the smaller shot