Evolution

[Eagle Eye]

While many like to point to the Bible and say it's just a bunch of stories written by a bunch of men, I'd like to point out that there have been a number of archeological finds that "confirm" things written of in the Bible. Therefore, even for just a bunch of stories, there seems to be an element of truth to the Bible, so I don't think it should be discounted.

There is certainly truth to the Bible, and I think it describes a great moral code that people should try to live by.
But, even if we find evidence that there may have been a man named jesus, and that he was crucified, there is no way to prove that that man was the son of God.
There is just no way to prove that God communicated with anyone in anyway.

 

[120 Acres]

There is certainly truth to the Bible, and I think it describes a great moral code that people should try to live by.
But, even if we find evidence that there may have been a man named jesus, and that he was crucified, there is no way to prove that that man was the son of God.
There is just no way to prove that God communicated with anyone in anyway.

Lots of these truths in the bible were shared by many different religions. Most of them older than Christianity.

 

[cody6766]

If you like, look at that "Guiding Hand" as the laws of physics. Someone or thing wrote or created those laws of physics. Unless you can come up with a better answer, I'll call the creator and/or author "God."

That's fine if you believe that. I just can't say I do. The idea of eternal happiness sounds awesome, but I just don't see anything to back it up other than some stories. I'm sure there is an element of truth to those stories and there are some great lessons to be taken from them. I think that's why they were handed down for so long before being written down...aside from the whole "god said so" part. Saying "unless you can come up with something better" is like the Greeks saying "prove Apollo doesn't drag the sun across the sky with his chariot." They couldn't and I can't now. I just have a problem deferring to the supernatural when we hit a wall. If you've seen the Futurama episode with the whole ID vs evolution argument, they do a good job making light of the issue and illustrating why we won't agree. The debate boils down to the point of "I believe" and "I don't believe," and unless one side is trying to force his opinion on the other, it's kind of the natural end. I don't think any of you guys are and I know I'm not and that's why this is a good thread. Anyway, here's the clip on youtube. It's worth a chuckle.

I also commend the posters for keeping a contentious subject a discussion instead of a name calling free for all.

Me too, but I never understood why people get so pissed at the other side. I've been on both and there's no sense getting mad over a disagreement that really doesn't affect the other person's life. I can see getting a little pissed in political discussions because those disagreements are tied to votes. If Bob and Jim disagree about god or no god, everyone can still believe or not. There's no sense in throwing sticks and blowing up buildings and calling names.

 

[120 Acres]

 

[FamousAJ]

For me, lack of an answer doesn't mean it must be supernatural. It just means we haven't answered the question, just like the early humans didn't know why lightning happened. If someone came up with real, scientific, compelling evidence that a god guided the creation of life, I'd probably buy into it. I just need more than "trust me" from a collection of books written by a few guys when there were plenty of other guys saying "trust me" about other books/writings/gods/traditions/etc.

I've been saying this all along...!

 

[WES]

We can think we know as long as we want but in the end what does it matter

 

[caojyn]

We can think we know as long as we want but in the end what does it matter

Apatheism, welcome to the club, or whatever

 

[YukonGlocker]

That's kinda how I feel. I've got years of scholastic studies and research. Trying to explain why I reasoned my opinions is hard on a forum.

No doubt evolution exists but evolution cannot disprove God's existence, rather our existence.

Evolution proves we are animals yet there seems to be something unique about humans as compared to other animals. Science, so far, has not identified what makes us unique.

Explaining what makes us separate and unique would take nothing less than a series of lectures and presentations. So my shortest answer is this;

Yes we evolved, however we did it with a guiding hand.

One large part of scientific training that is missing in many programs is the skill of reducing complexity down to a level where the general public can understand it. Then, if anyone wants to debate the details, they'll need the background to do it. The mechanics of evolution are understandable by most people with an 8th grade education or more. The reality is that most people don't spend the time to digest such details...they just read and then copy/paste other people's summaries of the details. For example, I have two co-authored peer-reviewed publications on the topic of evolution. The basics of those studies (and most any study) can be boiled down to a short paragraph that is digestible by the general public. Obviously, in depth discussion would require one to read the paper, know the esoteric terms of interest, and then have the background to discuss it...but if one can't explain the basics to a general audience, there will be problems.

There is quite a bit of literature (peer-reviewed articles) that focus on the uniqueness of human animals in comparison to non-human animals. But one has to first get past the assumption that we are separate and unique from other animals. We have evolved some mechanisms that have allowed us to flourish in our environment, but other animals have evolved their own mechanisms that we don't possess; and it would be really difficult to argue that one is better, higher, or more complex than the other.

 

[Lurker66]

One large part of scientific training that is missing in many programs is the skill of reducing complexity down to a level where the general public can understand it. Then, if anyone wants to debate the details, they'll need the background to do it. The mechanics of evolution are understandable by most people with an 8th grade education or more. The reality is that most people don't spend the time to digest such details...they just read and then copy/paste other people's summaries of the details. For example, I have two co-authored peer-reviewed publications on the topic of evolution. The basics of those studies (and most any study) can be boiled down to a short paragraph that is digestible by the general public. Obviously, in depth discussion would require one to read the paper, know the esoteric terms of interest, and then have the background to discuss it...but if one can't explain the basics to a general audience, there will be problems.

There is quite a bit of literature (peer-reviewed articles) that focus on the uniqueness of human animals in comparison to non-human animals. But one has to first get past the assumption that we are separate and unique from other animals. We have evolved some mechanisms that have allowed us to flourish in our environment, but other animals have evolved their own mechanisms that we don't possess; and it would be really difficult to argue that one is better, higher, or more complex than the other.

Humans as animals can and have adapted to earth environments better than any known species. Can anyone imagine a more perfect species. There is really nothing we are not capable of doing. Our biggest hindrance is time and space.

I don't for see any other species evolving enough to leave our planet. Flesh that out......we are on par with God in that we can do just about anything if we have time and space. About the only thing left for us to evolve to would be eternal beings.

 

[YukonGlocker]

Humans as animals can and have adapted to earth environments better than any known species. Can anyone imagine a more perfect species. There is really nothing we are not capable of doing. Our biggest hindrance is time and space.

I don't for see any other species evolving enough to leave our planet. Flesh that out......we are on par with God in that we can do just about anything if we have time and space. About the only thing left for us to evolve to would be eternal beings.

What do you mean by "perfect"? What else is more important than for a species to survive and not become extinct?...and many others are doing just fine. Although space travel is fun and downright awesome, it doesn't make us better or more complex than another species...and it could spell disaster for our species if we ever run into other beings who don't like our poking around in their space. There are many potential scenarios under which the vast numbers of ants, reptiles, or fish would do quite well in conditions that would wipe out humans.