FYI- Traffic Stops

[RKM]

I would argue Live PD is a good basis for my side. Even with cameras behind them you see police violating their oath and the Constitution. I really don't see the issue about video taping police. Police have body cams to protect themselves in court. What is wrong with civilians doing the same? Civilians recording police interaction has not only proven effective in court but has gotten some police fined, suspended, fired or even imprisoned for violating people's rights and even police brutality. Google the latest police incident in Boulder Colorado for a great example on how the police body cam and civilian video taping proved how the police tried to violate a man's right while almost getting him shot.

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[Snattlerake]

Because it is their job to investigate for all criminal activity. I cannot tell you the ratio of traffic stops for only traffic offences that have led to major felony arrests all because through questioning the police officer noticed something was suspicious. Let's use Timothy McVeigh as an example. Either the people in the vehicle's stories didn't jive, someone in the car stuffed something under the seat, some dumbass left a crack pipe in plain view, there is a magazine but no gun, in McVeigh's case, the trooper sees a gun in a shoulder holster.

As Americans, the United States Constitution along with The Bill of Rights is what we hold dear to our hearts. It is what has founded this great nation and sets us apart from all other nations. It is what our laws are tempered with because the Magna Carta is what our laws are based on. Due to the constitution and it's associated documents, our rule of law is tilted more in favor of the accused than the state as the state has the burden of proof. The proof is obtained by the use of tools like reasonable suspicion and probable cause by sworn and trained personnel to gather evidence. The officers are trained to ask leading, rhetorical and open ended questions, to do this. Merely asking a question to identify oneself is not a violation of rights. If there is suspicion of wrongdoing, then the officers can make them produce ID. "Shoving a camera" in the officer's face and refusing to identify are two different things. After the encounter has reached the point of reasonable suspicion and especially probable cause, all of the refusal to ID goes out the window.

The media has perpetuated this mantra to the point it has uneducated, if you will, the general public to increase the resistance of officers which in turn escalates into use of force situations. Many a state law states the person may not resist arrest by a peace officer even if the arrest may be unlawful.

The officer has to be observant, or he could be dead. As SPDguns has surmised, RKM has never worn their shoes but thinks he knows cops because his relatives have had discussions with him. If you have never walked up on a car load of people at 3 a.m. out in the boonies where your only backup is 50 or more miles away...If you have never said to yourself every day before you go to work the mantra every cop says, "I'm coming home safe after shift,"...If you have never fought for your life in hand to hand combat trying only to subdue to arrest only escalating the force after the suspect does... you weren't there.

 

[RKM]

You are right...never been a cop, so according to all I have no say in how my rights are treated. Officer safety trumps all rights....got it. I guess no one should post law unless they are police....got it. Police are always going to be lawful and hold to their oath....got it. Thanks OSA for showing me the error of my ways.

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[Foghorn]

I get it. What I don't get is where in the hell do you guys come up with this "shove a camera in the cop's face"? I said I use my dash cam. Now let's look at the car full of people that you have pulled over. Only the driver has broken a traffic law. According to state law, only the driver has to present his driver's license and identify himself, not anyone else. No matter how bad you want to ID everyone, in order for you to honor your oath and the Constitution they should not even be asked. Let's talk about suspicion. What constitutes that? I realize a cop has to go with his gut but is suspicion a crime? If that were a legal precedent police should be going door to door searching every home because at one time in their lives people gave acted suspicious. Believe me, I have close relatives that are cops or have been cops and we have some interesting discussions. But the nut cut of it is the Constitution of the United States. Something every police officer has to swear to uphold and what civilians expect them to uphold. It's sad in today's society that people are more afraid of police than they are criminals. Watch Live PD and some of the troopers that stop someone for a minor traffic infractions wind up getting searched and handcuffed for "officer safety". Sorry, when I get pulled over I want to know what I did wrong, provide my papers, get my ticket and be on my way without the 21 question rountine.

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RKM,.

I think most people are getting "shove a camera in thier face" because that's what the majority of the videos out there show people doing. The videos from people who video the way you describe dont end up getting watched on YouTube because they are boring.
I've been told numerous times by people "I'm recording you" my response is always, "outstanding, I'm recording you also, got your license handy?" I don't care if they record me, and I'm not gonna bite and allow the situation to spin away from the reason for my stop...

That being said, asking for id from the passengers is not a violation of oath or thier constitutional rights. Demanding it would be. They have the right to remain silent, or not provide Id, they also have the right to talk to me. It's thier choice. I've had a few decline, I really don't care. I rarely ask anyway unless there's more going on than a simple ticket.
Generally if I ask, the drivers got issues and I'm trying to keep from impounding the car, if the passenger is valid they can drive it to save me time and the driver money. Or they look familiar and I think they may have warrants......



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[Snattlerake]

You are right...never been a cop, so according to all I have no say in how my rights are treated. Officer safety trumps all rights....got it. I guess no one should post law unless they are police....got it. Police are always going to be lawful and hold to their oath....got it. Thanks OSA for showing me the error of my ways.

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[DavidMcmillan]

it's odd how some folks always have problems, while others never do.

 

[Glocktogo]

There’s a difference between videoing and aggressive videoing. There’s a difference between committing a traffic violation and working with the LEO to complete the contact, and “auditing” the LEO. If you feel the LEO is violating your rights, simply state you’re uncomfortable with the stop and request a supervisor.

As someone who’s worked the job in the past, my spidey sense gets amped up of you’re aggressive during a stop. It makes me assume you’re trying to dissuade me from doing the job. I don’t know what your motive is for doing that, so I’m going to be very pointed in how I deal with you. If it’s because you’re engaged in criminal activity beyond a traffic violation, I’m going to us every tool at my disposal to uncover it.

If you’re just being a dick because you can, you’re going to have an unpleasant interaction and you’re going to go away with a citation and your personal issues. I’m going to go away doing my job and glad I don’t have to put up with your belligerent ass for more than a few minutes. Who suffered more and why?

If a LEO is upset at being recorded at all, then that’s too damn bad. They are accountable to the law and the public. If they don’t agree then they’re in the wrong line of work.

 

[JD8]

Ten years ago, you could have been banned from OSA for expressing this perfectly reasonable opinion, and justifying it so well.

That's not true at all LOL. The cop haters here used to be in numbers and significantly worse.

 

[ignerntbend]

All those threads used to magically disappear.

 

[ignerntbend]

I only now discovered the existence of this thread.
I am right and you are wrong.
Beretta Man will be back when he's had time to contemplate his error.





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