Great Muzzle Loader Debate!

[jamesfpop]

What is your opinion on muzzleloading:

Should we go Old School: Flint or Cap Lock, with patched round Ball?
or
Should we go High Tech: Inline, sabots, rifle bullets, smokeless powder, and guaranteed ignition?

What do you think?????

 

[jamesfpop]

I was hogging another thread, so I started another muzzleloading debate. I have shot an inline for 8 years during muzzleloading deer season in OK. I have as many freinds that shoot traditional than inline. It always gets them a little funny when I start to talk to them about the sport. I know that you really can't mix the technologies per say, but ballistics and shooting in general are the same. If I have troubles I always go to the same guy. He makes sense and I usually solve the problem very quickly.
I now own a T/C Encore Pro Hunter. It is as far from the traditional as you can get, but it can deliver as much power with better accuracy than most traditional side lock rifles. The thing that they have in common is ONE shot!

 

[Slack One]

I enjoy inline guns (especially from a cleaning perspective), but I'm not going to diss the guys that go traditional. A flintlock flinging patched balls can be a beautiful thing.

I can't help but wonder, though, that the closer the inlines move to "normal" guns, the more danger there is to having a special season for "primitive firearms". Will it go away? Will OK clamp down on what's primitive enough? Would they open the field to large-bore single-shots like Mississippi did?

And will the new electronic ignition guns throw a hink in this even farther?

 

[Rod Snell]

I can't help but wonder, though, that the closer the inlines move to "normal" guns, the more danger there is to having a special season for "primitive firearms". Will it go away? Will OK clamp down on what's primitive enough? Would they open the field to large-bore single-shots like Mississippi did?

And will the new electronic ignition guns throw a hink in this even farther?

That's a very perceptive observation. Pennsylvania, which is at the top of the list for numbers of deer in the state, and also hunting pressure, now only allows iron-sigted flintlocks in the regular muzzleloader season. All modern muzzleloaders are allowed in the "Doe muzzleloader" season. After much debate, they also banned semi-autos from the regular deer gun season, with a handicap license exception.

In some states, the blackpowder single-shot clan is getting large and demanding to hunt in what is now "muzzleloader" season. There will always be disagreement between those who want a primitive hunting experience and those who want to kill deer with the least trouble, and no debate will resolve the differences.

One comment on muzzleloader cleaning and reliability. The easiest muzzleloader I have to clean is a Hawken with a patent breach. Pop off the barrel, take out the nipple, and upend in a bucket of hot dishwater. Black powder residue dissolves best in hot soapy water.Wash, rinse, and dry. Lube lightly inside with bore butter, and outside with car wax.
Never use anything in a blackpowder gun that came out of an oil well. Great-grandpa was right when he used natural bear grease. Petroleum products cause misfires.
Fire a cap before loading, load properly, and you will never have a hangfire or misfire.

 

[jamesfpop]

I don't have a huge hunting tradition in my family. I have to fall back on my in-laws as my hunting and fishing partners. I have enjoyed hunting with them for some ten years now and I try annually to go out with them. As I said earlier I own an Encore, but last year I toted a Kentucky pistol I had made from a CVA Kit. I had problems with the pistol in the field. It absolutely would not go off. After at least five caps, I removed the bolster screw and poured powder into the hole. It went off. It will be a long time before I carry it again. I probably should shoot and swab it daily in the field, like any other BP gun. Lesson learned, I need more practice, obviously. I have all kinds of questions about it, but a little bench time would answer them.

 

[jamesfpop]

I am not asking you to choose sides, I just want to know how the rest of the world hunts with black powder. This open thinking usually generates good ideas

 

[ElkStalkR]

It is as far from the traditional as you can get

ALMOST!! If it would only shoot smokeless like my Savage or SMI muzzleloaders would!

I hope T/C will get with it and build one soon.

I have no problem with traditional shooters. In fact I started out shooting a traditional and slowly "upgraded" to what I have now. Typically the traditional crowd has problems with me! Unfortunately a few of them are on high horses, and believe they better than the average inliner.

 

[jamesfpop]

I happen to like the old classics, but I wouldn't take it to the field to tear it up. Also, I don't own guns I won't use.

On the flip side, 'you can justify anything.' I would love it if someone offered a TC barrel, made for a smokeless load, lets say in .40 caliber (min. legal to hunt in OK).

I really like the Idea of keeping with the load from the muzzle though. It just keeps a level playing field and sustains the challenge of one shot.

 

[MDT]

I got into this "discussion" a couple of years ago on GT. My position is that hunting is an endangered and maligned sport. There should be plenty of room for the traditional guys and the modern guys...we all like to hunt. We should all "get along". His position: modern sucks and nobody should be allowed to soil the traditional guys season with the modern inline abomination.

So much for 2nd amendment unity.

I think he wore his hat too tight...

 

[Slack One]

I sort of understand the traditionalists POV on this one...

When the season was started, sidelock cap-poppers were the norm. There weren't just a whole lot of people interested enough in using that type of gun to actually get out there and "crowd" the hunting woods. Muzzleloading season was something a bit more peaceful...somewhat like bowhunting season still manages.

Now, however, you can go to Wal-Mart and spend a couple hundred bucks on an easy-to-use inline rifle that shoots heavy charges with a scope sitting on top...compared to the "early days", it's easy mode. There are a lot more folks wandering around in the woods during muzzie season now than before, and the people who have been doing it for a few decades are probably feeling crowded, especially since the public hunting plots are, as of late, feeling pretty small as it is.

Compare the impact of inexpensive inlines to what would happen if crossbows were suddenly legal for general use in bow season. You'd see a good-sized influx of people heaving short-bolts, and making hunting a touch tougher for the bow guys who have to get in *close* to do their work.

I'm not necessarily siding with the traditional folks, but I can see where the proliferation of "greenhorns" would be sort of throwing a brick through a part of their lifestyle.

So...I'd like to ask. What do people think the *intent* of muzzleloading/primitive season is?