Soonerwings, most on here support due process, et al. I get that. But, how would you feel if you were one of those "examples of a bad product?" If you want to know how bad it can be, talk to an indigent defender.
Copy, it sucks. But the system is designed to suck for the lowest number of people possible. That doesn't take the suck out of it for the unlucky few, but until most posters in this thread start coming up with how they'd improve it instead of cherry picking cases where something went wrong it's just a ***** session. Oh, for what it's worth, I've defended indigent people. I know what public defenders and OIDS attorneys go through.
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I am neither LEO or a prosecuter, and it is a statistcal probability that innocent people wind up in jail, I think relying on the number of cases overturned by the Innocence Project might paint a false picture. Evidence goes missing or is destroyed, witnesses die or memories fade. People recant there testimony for any number of reasons. Unless they are exonerated by DNA. Which was not avaible till the late 80's, I am a little leery of those being released. Case in point:
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/10/did-the-innocence-project-frame-an-innocent-man/
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/10/did-the-innocence-project-frame-an-innocent-man/
Most of those issues cut both ways, though. The friend you told the cops you were with that night 20 years ago when they say you killed someone could have forgot or died. Or never mind that the prosecutor failed to turn over the police report where they found an elderly witness who said they saw someone else that night at the scene of a crime.
DNA is great and all, but the evidence that could clear someone could just as easily go missing as the evidence that proves them guilty. And one reason that people recant, and which has come up in several cases, was that the original confession was forced or coerced. Just look at the stories coming out of Chicago about the torture that suspects faced under Jon Burge.
Texas Monthly has an amazing story about someone who spent 18 years in prison (12 on death row) was eventually exonerated
Innocents Lost
The followup story is good, as well.
Innocents Found
Both are long reads, but very good.
After a thorough reexamination of the case, he and the three people who flanked him that morningSiegler; the district attorneys investigator, Otto Hanak; and Texas Ranger Andres de la Garzahad all come to the same conclusion. Theres not a single thing that says Anthony Graves was involved in this case, Parham said. There is nothing. When Sieglers turn came to address reporters, she placed the blame for Gravess wrongful conviction squarely on former DA Charles Sebesta. Its a prosecutors responsibility to never fabricate evidence or manipulate witnesses or take advantage of victims, she said. And unfortunately, what happened in this case is all of those things. Gravess trial, she said, had been a travesty.
To anyone familiar with Gravess odyssey through the criminal justice system, the prosecutions about-face was a staggering reversal. During Sebestas 25-year tenure as district attorneyat one time he oversaw four contiguous counties between Houston and Austinhe was arguably the regions most powerful figure, and he had relentlessly pursued Graves, even though the case, as he had once conceded, was not a slam dunk. When Gravess conviction was reversed, Sebesta had staked his legacy on the case. He took two polygraph exams in an attempt to prove that he had disclosed exculpatory evidence to the defense, and he spent thousands of dollars to run full-page ads in two local newspapers that detailed why, in his estimation, Graves was a murderer. Sieglers withering assessment that morning (Charles Sebesta handled this case in a way that would best be described as a criminal justice systems nightmare) reframed the narrative: It was Sebesta, not Graves, who had done wrong. Her reputation as a fierce advocate of victims families made her unequivocal statements to reporters all the more credible; she could hardly be considered soft on crime or apt to be sympathetic to a man she had any reason to believe had actually stabbed four children to death.
That Sieglerknown for having been one of the most aggressive prosecutors in Harris County, which has sent more people to the death chamber than any other county in the nationhad backed away from a capital murder case had the entire Houston defense bar talking.
Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 02:34 PM PDT
Meet Jerry Hartfield. A judge overturned his conviction 35 years ago. He's still in prison, waiting.
This isn't fiction or hyperbole.
Kalief Browder served for three years in Riker's Island without ever being convicted of a crime.
Carlos Montero is in Riker's now and has served seven years there without ever being convicted.
But then, on another a level of outrageous injustice all by itself, is Jerry Hartfield. When I first learned of his story earlier today, I thought I was mistaken or was somehow misreading the facts. I wasn't.
His conviction for murder was overturned all the way back in 1980. He was never retried.
Guess what, a full 35 years later (that's over 12,500 days), Jerry Hartfield, without being formally convicted of a crime, remains in a Texas prison.
In June, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, with a great deal of prodding from the federal courts, confirmed that Hartfield was currently in custody for no good reasonunder penalty of no "conviction or sentence," the state judges ruled. And yet he still has not been released. Instead, prosecutors intend to retry him and are fighting to keep him in prison pending that retrial. What kind of trial? A trial at which there is likely to be precious little physical evidence against the defendant because, his attorneys say, it may have been lost over time.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...ion-35-years-ago-He-s-still-in-prison-waiting
Meet Jerry Hartfield. A judge overturned his conviction 35 years ago. He's still in prison, waiting.
This isn't fiction or hyperbole.
Kalief Browder served for three years in Riker's Island without ever being convicted of a crime.
Carlos Montero is in Riker's now and has served seven years there without ever being convicted.
But then, on another a level of outrageous injustice all by itself, is Jerry Hartfield. When I first learned of his story earlier today, I thought I was mistaken or was somehow misreading the facts. I wasn't.
His conviction for murder was overturned all the way back in 1980. He was never retried.
Guess what, a full 35 years later (that's over 12,500 days), Jerry Hartfield, without being formally convicted of a crime, remains in a Texas prison.
In June, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, with a great deal of prodding from the federal courts, confirmed that Hartfield was currently in custody for no good reasonunder penalty of no "conviction or sentence," the state judges ruled. And yet he still has not been released. Instead, prosecutors intend to retry him and are fighting to keep him in prison pending that retrial. What kind of trial? A trial at which there is likely to be precious little physical evidence against the defendant because, his attorneys say, it may have been lost over time.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...ion-35-years-ago-He-s-still-in-prison-waiting
if true .. this is very disturbing ...
Well, I'm not a forensic scientist, but I think a lot of things in the commentary need to be taken with a grain of salt. Firstly, many people have hung themselves from door knobs, so that instantly nullifies that argument. The conjecture about the angle of the hair at the best is inconclusive, I have native American hair, the hair shafts are very thick, and once set in position they don't move, so I have to wash my hair every morning to make it lay down. There are no ligature marks on her neck, and if she was found hanging as was indicated by the deputy in the sheriffs video, those should have been visible along with other evidence, burst blood vessels in the eyes, swollen lips and tongue, etc. The quotes about the position of the shoulder, is just stupid and makes no sense. Most importantly the autopsy found no evidence of defensive wounds, I don't know about you, but if anyone tried to string me up, they are in for a hell of a fight, I'm sure somewhere in the struggle I would be bloodied and bruised and scraped. Sadly, I think the young lady had mental issues that caused her to take her own life.
if true .. this is very disturbing ...
how is it possible for a 6ft person to hang from a 5ft anchor point?
video below clearly shows officer ordering her out of her car immediately after she correctly questions why she has to put out her cigarette inside her own car? officer may be technically able to order her out of her car for any reason including fear of his safety .. but it would really be a stretch to believe officer ordered her out of her car for safety reasons. it goes downhill quick from the moment she refused to put out her cigarette inside her own car.
my guess is that officer will not be with that department for long ...
this is allegedly to be the original booking photo? is this real?
The Anonymous collective is enraged at the failed attempt by Waller County PD and the Texas Trooper Association to mask a blatant act of crime against an innocent woman. And we will not stand as Sandra’s death becomes another hashtag and then a statistic.
DOCUMENTS
– Booking doc: http://bit.ly/1CVh5BW
– Suicide doc: http://bit.ly/1TXnosZ / http://bit.ly/1emrLh6
PHOTOS
– #SandraWasMurdered: http://bit.ly/1VFltuX
– The room: http://bit.ly/1VFlvTv
– The shadows: http://bit.ly/1Ms79mr / http://bit.ly/1HYknku
– Waller County Jail mugshots: http://bit.ly/1IjiDSn (website: http://bit.ly/1IrWN5f)
– Sandra Bland mugshot: http://bit.ly/1LCny7U
ARTICLES
– Waller County’s History of Racism: http://bit.ly/1JjBUbk
– Sandra Bland Becomes The Latest Victim Of The ‘Marijuana Smear': http://bit.ly/1HYlsJb
Sandra Bland was murdered. Anonymous exposes this crime and demands the arrests of those involved.
http://asheepnomore.net/2015/07/25/anonymous-exposes-texas-police-for-murdering-sandra-bland/
Last edited by a moderator:
You can look it up yourself, lots of folks have committed suicide by hanging from door knobs and other low anchor points. All you have to do is suspend your weight from the ligature until you pass out, after that your legs no longer support your weight and gravity takes over, and you asphyxiate. Lots of folks into auto-erotic asphyxiation accidentally die doing this, think David Carradine. If you read the police report, it states that her feet were on the floor. I'm sure nothing I say will change your mind, as you seem to have already come to a conclusion. One more thing though, the cameras outside her cell, were motion activated, and do not show anyone entering her cell.
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