I'm not sure I understand your premise. Are you saying we should avoid having an open dialogue about the underlying issues?
I'm not sure I understand your premise. Are you saying we should avoid having an open dialogue about the underlying issues?
Miss Long makes an excellent case for the children that suffer in the manner she describes. Were the report entirely fictional the point would still stand. There are children like this that need help for which no help can be obtained. I have seen it firsthand. The resources of most every parent can be quickly outstripped. We pay dearly for ignoring it. Affixing the blame to some parent (Warranted or Not) is very little consolation.
Rhetorical question you don't need me to answer, but hey.
The dialogue we have regarding events like this, and the context in which we have it, is terribly off-putting to me. Speculation, blame, silly viral blog postings, hunting for correlations to push a political/religious agenda, etc. So yeah, having seen the same open dialogue play out time and time again since 4/20/99, I'd say the what passes for it in America is wholly unhealthy and unproductive, and oftentimes it's simply abhorrent. Underlying issues? Please. To say the focus of the dialogue surrounding the Sandy Hook (or Columbine, or Aurora, or...) shooting are the underlying issues that contributed to it is like saying the movie Deep Throat was about ENT medicine.
Open dialogue in situations like this is polluted by fear, selfishness, prejudice, and the shouting of people who think open dialogue doesn't involve listening. The reaction to a mass shooting is formulaic and predictable and never brings about any meaningful change. That would take being uncomfortable and making sacrifices, and we don't want that. We want to shout and blame and temporarily sate our narcissistic appetite so we can forget about all these things we care so much about. Until next time - then we hit replay.
Years ago we didn't hear about these children because they were put in mental hospitals and mostly forgotten. since then we've become "civilized" and now we see they "get treatment". Yea, right!
When Central State colsed in Norman they released many of their inmates into our city, we tried and sometimes found places for them where the couild become productive members of Norman.
New treatment centers were built with a shorter time for hospitalization. Eventually our society became complacient with the mentally ill. If you had a member of your family who needded help you
not the state were supposed to care for them. This places the burden of care on the family. Now times are again different. Financially many people are having to make choices between medically seeking
help or paying the rent and buying groceries. In a society where many people do not accept that they are responsible for their own actions, we should expect to have these terrible events take place.
Most children see more murders take place by the time they are 10 then I saw die during my time at war. Mostly because of videlo games. Having taught 10 year olds for 25 years I can say that
most of them have trouble accepting fiction from fact. They see so many examples of people dying; and the next day of week, or when you turn on the game the person lives. All of that affects how
you view reality. That is especially true for those children who have mental problems.
We need better support for families living with children in need. No one should have to choose between food and shelter or Medical care. But it really takes greater people than me to help these people.
That is the shame I bear. I wish I had a solution.
Just Stan
When Central State colsed in Norman they released many of their inmates into our city, we tried and sometimes found places for them where the couild become productive members of Norman.
New treatment centers were built with a shorter time for hospitalization. Eventually our society became complacient with the mentally ill. If you had a member of your family who needded help you
not the state were supposed to care for them. This places the burden of care on the family. Now times are again different. Financially many people are having to make choices between medically seeking
help or paying the rent and buying groceries. In a society where many people do not accept that they are responsible for their own actions, we should expect to have these terrible events take place.
Most children see more murders take place by the time they are 10 then I saw die during my time at war. Mostly because of videlo games. Having taught 10 year olds for 25 years I can say that
most of them have trouble accepting fiction from fact. They see so many examples of people dying; and the next day of week, or when you turn on the game the person lives. All of that affects how
you view reality. That is especially true for those children who have mental problems.
We need better support for families living with children in need. No one should have to choose between food and shelter or Medical care. But it really takes greater people than me to help these people.
That is the shame I bear. I wish I had a solution.
Just Stan
Ridgehunter, you're 1/3 Yoda, 1/3 Darth Vader, and 1/3 Jar Jar Binks.
And none of this has changed. We just talk about it more. There are may be more shelters to hide in but there is no substantive after care for the abused or mentally ill so they wind up right back where they started, in prison or dead more often than not.
Only thing that has really changed is that we have given them all a false sense of hope that they can, indeed, change things by speaking out. All speaking out gets you is ignored, chastised, pigeon-holed and ultimately labeled a "problem" ...
I know, because I have been all those things -- an abused child, an abused spouse and a woman on welfare with kids who were "gonna wind up in jail" simply by virtue of the fact I was a piss-poor idiot when it came to choosing a man ... And I do believe now that for a long period of time I was depressed ... Although thank God all that is behind me now, no thanks to the "system" ...
So, I guess maybe you are right ... It didn't start in the 70s ... "We" just started talking about it at cocktail parties more and set aside some public funds for all those liberal arts majors to set up shelters so they could feel like they were making a difference in the world.
Well, I'd say it was easier to hide the fact you abuse your kids in say, rural 1930's Arkansas than in 2012 OKC or Tulsa with your kid in public schools. I won't even say 'hide' - it was easier to abuse kids and have no one mention it/call you out on it. People knew, but they didn't talk.
My proof? The commonly-held belief that abuse/neglect/bad parenting didn't start until the late 20th century, like the post I replied to. That's a good job at hiding something if I ever saw one.
I'd also say it was more difficult for a woman to leave an abuser in an era before women were educated and able to seek employment/support themselves. It's objectively easier for a woman to find employment and support herself/children financially in 2012 than it was in 1932. Not saying it's not still difficult; I'm just saying that there are a few logistical options now for what once almost an impossibility. Plus divorces were unheard of.
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In more situations than this, sadly.
Ridge, I usually agree with what you say and love how you say it. However, in this case, I think you are only partially correct. Yes, you are right that in the 70s and before, these horrible things did happen. And you are correct in your assertion that our instant information age makes it seem as if these things are happening more frequently. Likewise, you are correct that it was more difficult for a woman to leave an abuser back then.
However, the country HAS, indeed, changed. People are no longer as respectful of insitutions and one another. We all are addicted to our smart phones with the same sickness as a heroin or crack junkie. Where once we had TV heroes like Marshall Dillon and Ben Cartwright, we now have Jerry Springer and reality TV. Our movies and TV shows do not stress a common moral code like they once did. Now, the prevailing philosophy is "If I can get away with it, I'll do it." We are a nation of narcissistic, immature brats.
You are correct that we have a tendency to forget the bad and remember the good, but there WAS more good in many ways. Prior to the well-intentioned, misguided debacle of LBJ's "Great Society," we had an African American community in which most families were intact. Even kids from my generation (I am 44), usually had a father and mother in the home.
I am NOT patronizing you when I tell you that eventually, you, too, will most likely see changes in your lifetime that will sadden you and give you pause.
Unfortunately, I believe you are 100% correct.
If that's how you really feel then why did you even open or post in this thread? Was it some urgent need within you to denigrate those of us who do attempt to understand? Perhaps you should focus your critical eye inward.
