If you want to know what's wrong with the GOP....

[TSgt Twitch]

Bottom line for the GOP. the "ultra family values conservatives" are holding the party hostage-well here is a news flash- they are all old and dieing off and if they do not get their way they will not vote anyway.More moderate republicans or socially liberal/fiscal conservatives who just want smaller government and the state/fed out of our bedrooms and boardrooms get to watch our candidate of choice get slandered by the right. HEY GUESS WHAT ULTRA RIGHT A#$HOLES- a devout practicing Mormon is 10x more pious and "conservative" than any of you. and one that can read and understand the constitution and can compromise to keep core ideals and freedoms as well as fight against the fiscal agenda of the money/gun grabbers is exactly what we needed-not some whack job in a nice sweater that thinks illegals will self deport, or some argumentative historian who believes his spouses place is in the kitchen while he bangs his mistress.

If you cannot hold onto your moral compass and compromise for the better and get behind the pony that closest matches you, or if you cannot embrace the reality that the founding fathers did not give more than a day or two before they made sure that RELIGION had NO PLACE in governing then your ideals/morals will be forgotten. You love America because of its founding principals, yet you JUST LIKE THE LIBERALS, cherry pick items of self importance out of the bill of rights etc. America is a place for immigrants, a place for gays, a place for equal opportunity for all, gays should have the same tax rights as heterosexuals (thats all marriage is to non Christians a civil union for the purpose of tax evasion) The government has no role dictating morality, no role dictating a companies decisions, no role picking wall street winners and loosers, no role in my bedroom or the bedroom of any consenting adult. The GOP is dieing because literrarly the extreme right wing holding it hostage for the last 5 generations is on social security/life support/retirement income and DIEING.

 

[vvvvvvv]

marriage is a religious institution.

Care to tell us the history of marriage?

 

[RickN]

Care to tell us the history of marriage?

Been going on for many centuries before government got into it and they only did as a source of income. There were couples getting together before religions but not in a formal recognized way. The US governments (states etc) did not even start issuing marriage licenses for most people until the 1920s.

 

[TSgt Twitch]

Marriage in the "modern era" was intended as a way to promote spending towards a better America. Marriage promotes home ownership which promotes spending in several other sectors, furthermore marriage promotes stable children AMERICAN children that grow up and get married and spend spend spend. However the Government screwed the pooch and started promoting womens lib etc. which put women outside the home and in the workplace which hurt "traditional marriage", then they started paying welfare moms with social safety nets, which meant a woman who didnt want to work, could not get married, sit at home, spit out babies and make a better living/live a better lifestyle than a middle income "traditional family" THEN they decide that seperation of church and state meant the banning of all religion which meant the little welfare childrens exposure to any type of golden rule/moral compass was eliminated and they no longer had a "choice" towards religion because they could not be exposed to it by their most important influences (peers and super star endorsements).

Now lets let gays get married, it does the same thing for the country, they can adopt children, raise them to be responsible citizens and give them choices, take away generational welfare spending and promote welfare to work instead of welfare to live. Lets kick the government out of the business of dictating where I can put my noodle or where we can sell our homegrown produce and goats milk.
Lets fast track illegals who want to serve int he military or get advanced degrees, give work permits to those who want to pick beans/strawberries etc. since farmers actually cannot get "Americans" to work those jobs. Lets focus on what actually made America a free and independant country- Free commerce, Free trade, Free Love and FREEDOM TO THINK AND ACT AND SUCCEED OR FAIL ON ONES MERITS.
(oh and for full disclosure I am currently active duty facing medical retirement and have submitted for SSDI I have served this country for over 16yrs and I do not feel like I am a leech for applying)

 

[michaelnc4444]

Marriage in the "modern era" was intended as a way to promote spending towards a better America. Marriage promotes home ownership which promotes spending in several other sectors, furthermore marriage promotes stable children AMERICAN children that grow up and get married and spend spend spend. However the Government screwed the pooch and started promoting womens lib etc. which put women outside the home and in the workplace which hurt "traditional marriage", then they started paying welfare moms with social safety nets, which meant a woman who didnt want to work, could not get married, sit at home, spit out babies and make a better living/live a better lifestyle than a middle income "traditional family" THEN they decide that seperation of church and state meant the banning of all religion which meant the little welfare childrens exposure to any type of golden rule/moral compass was eliminated and they no longer had a "choice" towards religion because they could not be exposed to it by their most important influences (peers and super star endorsements).

Now lets let gays get married, it does the same thing for the country, they can adopt children, raise them to be responsible citizens and give them choices, take away generational welfare spending and promote welfare to work instead of welfare to live. Lets kick the government out of the business of dictating where I can put my noodle or where we can sell our homegrown produce and goats milk.
Lets fast track illegals who want to serve int he military or get advanced degrees, give work permits to those who want to pick beans/strawberries etc. since farmers actually cannot get "Americans" to work those jobs. Lets focus on what actually made America a free and independant country- Free commerce, Free trade, Free Love and FREEDOM TO THINK AND ACT AND SUCCEED OR FAIL ON ONES MERITS.
(oh and for full disclosure I am currently active duty facing medical retirement and have submitted for SSDI I have served this country for over 16yrs and I do not feel like I am a leech for applying)

Though I agree with your sentiments about gay marriage, I agree less with your ideas about illegals. The reason farmers can't get Americans to pick their crops is because they can get illegals to do it cheaper. Force the illegals out and farmers will have no choice but to hire Americans. They may have to pay a bit more and I realize this could drive costs up on some foods, BUT, it generates a better society. When people work, they become proud, when proud they want to get more, then they work harder, get better jobs, etc... Plus, the more people we have working the better the economy becomes, better economy means less government spending, less spending means less deficit. As long as we allow others to "steal" work and pride from our citizens, we will continue to spiral down. As far as the immigrants that want to serve or that have advanced degrees, I think we should be leaving all the places we currently occupy, and bring our troops home. If we do that we need much fewer men and women in the military, therefore there really is no need for them to come for that reason. The folks with advanced degrees, we fast track them already; Doctors, scientists, engineers, you bet, we want as many as them that want to come here.

 

[TSgt Twitch]

Several anecdotal experiments show farmers trying to hire Americans, even giving incentives to welfare takers. But the bottom line is dirty thoughtless brainless work does not garner $12 an hour pay and the average cost of welfare equates to a $31 an hour job (that includes administrative costs etc to the government) the "average family of four" in just cash/food benefits is closer to 1600 a month (low) and $2k a month (high) which JUST in cash comes out to $10 a hour+ the healthcare, tax breaks, reduced housing cost, SSI etc.. Now you take the average income of a "middle class american" of $25 an hour x160 and it comes out to $4K a month BUT that person looses 7-12% in state/local taxes (ease of math median 10%) leaving 43,200, then 6.2% for SS %40,521 THEN 15% for FED $34, 443 Net income BEFORE paying for healthcare etc. Also they do not get reduced housing cost, tax free forms from local states etc.

It is Cheaper and more profitable for a non skilled worker in the US to stay unemployed on welfare than it is to work. that's the problem. IF farmers had to pay above "welfare" rates instead of minimum wage to its workers then MOST farms would go under. We are not talking about 5-10 more cents a pound for strawberries we are talking dollars more per pound and then the cheap stuff we can import from central/south america where slave labor is paid would drown out out local farmers.

 

[michaelnc4444]

Several anecdotal experiments show farmers trying to hire Americans, even giving incentives to welfare takers. But the bottom line is dirty thoughtless brainless work does not garner $12 an hour pay and the average cost of welfare equates to a $31 an hour job (that includes administrative costs etc to the government) the "average family of four" in just cash/food benefits is closer to 1600 a month (low) and $2k a month (high) which JUST in cash comes out to $10 a hour+ the healthcare, tax breaks, reduced housing cost, SSI etc.. Now you take the average income of a "middle class american" of $25 an hour x160 and it comes out to $4K a month BUT that person looses 7-12% in state/local taxes (ease of math median 10%) leaving 43,200, then 6.2% for SS %40,521 THEN 15% for FED $34, 443 Net income BEFORE paying for healthcare etc. Also they do not get reduced housing cost, tax free forms from local states etc.

It is Cheaper and more profitable for a non skilled worker in the US to stay unemployed on welfare than it is to work. that's the problem. IF farmers had to pay above "welfare" rates instead of minimum wage to its workers then MOST farms would go under. We are not talking about 5-10 more cents a pound for strawberries we are talking dollars more per pound and then the cheap stuff we can import from central/south america where slave labor is paid would drown out out local farmers.

I agree with the fact that entitlement programs are a large part of the issue. That's the trap though. The government makes it so you are forced to live off the "dole" because doing real work does not pay enough. We need to fix both immigration and entitlement programs at the same time. Stop giving away the farm to those who do nothing, start giving more to those who do something. If we worked it correctly, there would be almost no change in prices, but there would still be a large net savings.

 

[TSgt Twitch]

Exactly even liberals have figured out in some circles that the current system taxes work and not wealth or spending like it should be. Having lived in socialist countries for part of my adult life I agree we need some social safety nets and I also agree on consumption and import taxes to provide a type of "protection" for Americans but that borders on isolationism which is bad juju in today's global market. I think first thing first Americans need to lower their lifestyle to meet their income etc. but if the dens keep giving out candy the kids are gonna take it. As a prior recruiter I learned how easy it is to manipulate kids and the demos do a better job of it

 

[ignerntbend]

Guys, I'm a partisan Democrat, but our whole system requires a loyal opossition. Get a clue. The founders would be dumbfounded by it, but Women get to vote now.

 

[ignerntbend]

Some one should start a poll on the He Man Woman Haters Club.
Either you're with Spanky, 0r you're with Alfalfa. What's it gonna be?