Jihadist Group Takes Credit For Arizona Wildfires?

[ignerntbend]

It is (or would be) a great bang for the buck form or terrorism. It worries me.

 

[mugsy]

The problem is that our country would lie to us about it being started by lightning just as fast as the terrorists would lie about their starting the fire.

Who do we believe on this one?

The other problem is that conspiracy-minded folks often confuse risk-taking and reasonable assumptions made in the dearth of hard knowledge, with "lying".

The Iraq WMD issue serves as an example - it is as if all the UN IAEA, US military intel and NRC expert info, and the testimony and opinions of multiple international experts is forgotten - in short the whole world thought it "knew" that Saddam Hussein had or was in the process of making WMDs (beyond the chemical weapons he already had deployed and used) and acquiring delivery systems. It wasn't just the administration or even just the US, it was also the EU, NATO, and the UN - remember that while the technical intel was largely ours, the inspections teams were UN not US. We did know some things, assumed some others, and hoped for a few more then made a strategic gamble because time seemed to be working against us. You may think that's wrong, or ill-advised, but it is not lying - it is taking a risk in a very high-stakes enterprise and then coming up short.

 

[waltham41]

The other problem is that conspiracy-minded folks often confuse risk-taking and reasonable assumptions made in the dearth of hard knowledge, with "lying".

.

I feel really sorry for you if you believe everything the government tells you is the truth. I am not a conspiracy nut but I also don't have a lot of faith that the government, especially this administration, is going to be truthful to us on a lot of subjects.

Fast and furious ring a bell to you?

 

[IndVet]

I feel really sorry for you if you believe everything the government tells you is the truth. I am not a conspiracy nut but I also don't have a lot of faith that the government, especially this administration, is going to be truthful to us on a lot of subjects.

Fast and furious ring a bell to you?

Earlier in this thread you compare our government to terrorists and imply they lie just as much as the jihadists. Believe me, I feel real sorry for you if that's what you think of your country. In your most recent post you say this administration is worse than others, LOL.

 

[mugsy]

I feel really sorry for you if you believe everything the government tells you is the truth. I am not a conspiracy nut but I also don't have a lot of faith that the government, especially this administration, is going to be truthful to us on a lot of subjects.

Fast and furious ring a bell to you?

Waltham41 - how do you make the leap that by refuting that everything is a lie, I am affirming that everything is the truth? That fails the basic logic test - i.e. if A then B, does NOT equal if not A then not B. I have always preached trust, if you wish, but always verify.

The problem is that no one, at any level, ever has "perfect" intelligence and, especially in matters of military secrets - with forces actively working to hide or obscure what they are doing - it is extremely hard to know "ground truth" but that doesn't mean you don't have to make decisions anyway. Some of those decisions have lesser or greater short and long term effects but that is the cost of doing any kind of business at all. Those who say "well don't make any decision" forget that making no decision is a decision in and of itself.

 

[mugsy]

Waltham41 - in the case of Fast and Furious, I gave as much credence as I could to the administrations' explanations some of which were somewhat credible and some of which - even at face value - were not credible. But F&F isn't everything nor is it every administration, though most administrations are at least tempted to spin the facts to fit their desired end state.

All I said was that blanket statements about everything being a lie are nonsense and undermine the person making the statement. Stick to specific facts on specific cases and you will make much stronger arguments.

 

[Billybob]

Weren't we being warned about this last year?

Denver FBI Warns of Jihadist Wildfire Threat 05/25/2012

http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/denver-fbi-warns-jihadist-wildfire-threat-009901

Homeland Security Warns of Terrorist Wildfire Attacks June 2, 2012

http://publicintelligence.net/homeland-security-warns-of-terrorist-wildfire-attacks/

Apparently this one wasn't Lightning...

MANSON, Wash., July 7 (UPI) -- The Washington Department of Natural Resources said in a statement released Sunday that the wildfire north of Manson has been determined to be human-caused.

The fire started Thursday, the DNR said, and a boat was seen quickly leaving the area at the time of the ignition.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013...d-by-humans/UPI-70181373212524/#ixzz2YOZiTM8w