Legalities of this situation

[ripnbst]

Uhh, didn't you just buy this like yesterday?

http://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?147069-WTB-M-amp-P-shield-9-or-40
Posted yesterday afternoon

http://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?147106-M-amp-P-Shield-40
Posted yesterday evening

What are the legalities of this? "Uh, it's not a straw purchase. I bought it took it home, realized I didn't like it and then sold it to my friend for what I paid for it..."

I suppose as long as it can not be demonstrated that someone is making a habit of it this could fly under the radar but even one straw purchase could potentially put a gun in a criminal's hands.

For the record, I am not implying anything illegal took place. Simply from the outside looking in stating what it could be construed as in the event of the unthinkable.

 

[Fatboy Joe]

Not necessarily. Nothing stated shows the intent of the party. It could have been he went down and bought the firearm. When he got back he had a better offer for a different firearm. He doesn't have use of two of them so he sold the one he didn't want. Would it have been different if he didn't buy it from SSP but from me?

 

[toomuchglock]

ive wondered this same thing. asked people questions, and never got any intelegent answers

 

[MLR]

If you can prove that you had no prior discussions with this friend about purchasing this firearm (conspiracy) then you might me fine. You do have proof don't you? No? Then life in Federal prison is a distinct possibility.

If you can get over that hurdle can you prove that you had no intent to pass this on to your fried prior to your purchasing it? Surely you can prove that you had no intent to bypass Federal gun laws can't you? No? Well then you will be glad to know that this does not carry a life sentence like conspiracy charges do. You can do a few years in Federal lockup standing on your heard. It will be a snap.

I do not see this as a big deal. Just prove that you are not guilty and you are free to go. Houses, college funds, IRA's and other items of value will help in your attempt to prove your innocence.
Sleep well.

Michael

 

[ripnbst]

Not necessarily. Nothing stated shows the intent of the party. It could have been he went down and bought the firearm. When he got back he had a better offer for a different firearm. He doesn't have use of two of them so he sold the one he didn't want. Would it have been different if he didn't buy it from SSP but from me?

Would be no different regardless of who bought it from where. if I buy a gun in the morning and sell it in the evening. That doesn't look good in the event something happens involving said firearm.

If you can prove that you had no prior discussions with this friend about purchasing this firearm (conspiracy) then you might me fine. You do have proof don't you? No? Then life in Federal prison is a distinct possibility.

If you can get over that hurdle can you prove that you had no intent to pass this on to your fried prior to your purchasing it? Surely you can prove that you had no intent to bypass Federal gun laws can't you? No? Well then you will be glad to know that this does not carry a life sentence like conspiracy charges do. You can do a few years in Federal lockup standing on your heard. It will be a snap.

I do not see this as a big deal. Just prove that you are not guilty and you are free to go. Houses, college funds, IRA's and other items of value will help in your attempt to prove your innocence.
Sleep well.

Michael

I agree proof would be nice but, it's easier to prove something you did do than something you didn't do. It's easy to prove I had made a phone call or sent a text. It would not be easy to prove that I in no way shape or form had contact with a friend that day. It would be up to the other party to prove I had made that contact. Further, you'd have to convince a judge or jury that a gun bought at 2:00 and sold seven hours later was never intended to be sold in the first place. if your wife told you she was pregnant btw 2:00 and 9:00 that might be one thing but if there was no major potentially life changing occurrence...not a situation I'd like to put myself in.

 

[rawhide]

I'm not a lawyer nor do I give legal advice but my understanding of the law in this situation is this: You bought it so it is yours. Since you own it you can sell it to anyone who can legally purchase it. Nothing wrong unless you bought it with the intention of selling it illegally and the burden of proof of your intent rests with the prosecutor.

 

[henschman]

An illegal "straw purchase" is buying a gun in your name as a proxy for someone else who is the true buyer. That is not the case in this situation, because MrShooter apparently bought a gun and immediately posted it for re-sale. He would have no way to know who would actually buy it from him in his re-sale. For a straw purchase, you have to be buying it for a specific person, who you know you are buying for beforehand. No matter how systematically somebody does what MrShooter did, it can never be said that they are engaging in a straw purchase. Even if you buy a gun purely with the intent of re-selling it as quick as you can, you are still buying it for yourself and it cannot be said that it is an illegal straw sale. The fact is, a true buyer can dispose of his property however he wants, including selling it.

However, if he doesn't have an FFL and this is done repeatedly, there may be a possible legal issue with engaging in the business of selling firearms without a FFL.

As in any criminal prosecution, the state would have the burden of proving every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt in order to convict someone... you do not have to prove that you DIDN'T intend to buy something for another person. Both of these laws are federal felonies with hefty prison sentences and fines if convicted.
Also, both of these laws are B.S. unconstitutional violations of people's natural rights, so I would never make an issue of it, call someone out on it, or inform law enforcement. The most I would do, as I did here, is tell people what the law is so they can make their own choices with complete and accurate information.

 

[MLR]

I'm not a lawyer nor do I give legal advice but my understanding of the law in this situation is this: You bought it so it is yours. Since you own it you can sell it to anyone who can legally purchase it. Nothing wrong unless you bought it with the intention of selling it illegally and the burden of proof of your intent rests with the prosecutor.

Oh? Our laws nowadays are written so that the capability do do something is proof of intent. It is no longer necessary to prove actual intent. Only that you are capable of doing it.

Michael

 

[rawhide]

Oh? Our laws nowadays are written so that the capability do do something is proof of intent. It is no longer necessary to prove actual intent. Only that you are capa
ble of doing it.

Michael

See previous post by henchman. He said what I said but much better and he does know the law.