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oklacowboy
Guest
I like the way you think. Very well said.
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Oops, I was referring to having guns in the vehicle and not concealed carry. We used to just unload them and toss them into the seat next to you. Even had some friends that would just put their holstered handguns on the dash when transporting them to their destination. Have the laws changed?
EDIT: double checked before posting.
Michael
Im sorry but I disagree some of what you just said. Granted I respect your opinion heres how I'd break it down. Criminals are opportunist, Id imagine 8 out of 10 criminals would be detoured from a crime if they saw at least one person with a gun on their hip.Let me start by saying, yes I am a LEO and I support the 2nd Amendment 110%.
Do I support open carry? No. Let me tell you why.
It has absolutely nothing to do about the wild, wild west. It has to do with basically two things. Public safety and the element of surprise.
There are many gun owners who read all the gun rags and hang out at gun shops and fondle every gun out there before they buy one. Which is good. Research is vital.
However. Simply owning a gun doesn't mean you know how to use it properly. Just like owning a guitar does NOT make you a musician.
A lot of people don't use good judgement when picking out the proper gear for their CC package. They may buy the very best pistol on the market, but they will skimp on a proper holster, belt and mag pouch.
You DO carry a spare mag...don't you?
Anyway...back to my point(s).
Open carry invites more crime. When a properly licensed, CCW holder, with his gun on his hip is standing in line at the local grocery store, Wal-Mart, wherever, he/she poses a potential threat to those around them simply because they aren't focused on their weapon but rather everything having to do with their transaction at the register. This gives a bad guy a perfect opportunity to disarm the citizen and perform illegal activities.
And don't think I'm just picking on the citizens out there. Hell, I've seen other cops that forget all about their pistola on their hip and practically hand it to a bad guy. I laugh at dispatchers that give us a call of a domestic in progress followed by a "no weapons involved" statement. The minute I arrive there WILL be a weapon involved - mine! There is a gun at every call I go to - mine!
The next point I want to share is the element of surprise.
The bad guys out there have plenty of information about you. Thanks to Google and the internet, if a bad guy wants to study you and learn about you, he'll know you better than you know yourself. And while you're standing in line at the grocery store, Wal-Mart, wherever, do you really want him to know that you are armed? Guess who his first target is gonna be?
If you keep your iron hidden then you have a shred of hope against an attack. The element of surprise. If you say to him, "here's my gun" he's gonna do everything in his power to take it away from you, giving him complete control of the situation. Then, you are no longer a citizen, but a statistic.
As a cop, I hate going to Wal-Mart or someplace while I am in uniform because I'm as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Because even though I've been thru more firearms training than the average Joe, I too am not immune from an attempted gun grab and I have the same limited view as everybody else.
Bad guys thrive on bad things. That's who/what they are. Nobody can check their six constantly. When a bad guy sees your gun, he knows that he has to take you out first so he can have the upper hand. He can (and will) attack you and disarm you because he has already set his sights on you without your knowledge of him doing so.
Now I can ramble on and on and I know I'm gonna catch hell for what I've just said, but...that's just my take on open carry.
And for the record...you see all these off duty cops with their gun on their hip and a shild clipped next to it? That's just as bad IMO as the citizen carrying openly. When I'm off duty, you won't see ANYTHING on or about my person that says "cop."
But yeah, if'n I'm vertical, I'm armed.
Look at states that are very gun friendly and look at their violent crimes rates. Now look at states where gun laws are very restrictive. Which have the higher violent crime rates? I just think some leos are nervous about people with a gun on their side. At least your "element of surprise" won't be used against you. You will see who's packing and who's not.
I stayed at a holiday inns express last night, and I support the 2nd amendment and the Constitution. With that said, I think PC in 99% of circumstances is foolish at best. I also support people's right to be foolish, as long as I don't have to deal with it, and it doesn't affect me and mine.
I think there has been a serious lack of reading comprehension for some people responding to GED.
ETA: Within the last couple months there was a man OCing. He was beaten, his gun taken and IIRC the thug robbed and shot someone with said gun. Story can be found on this site
I think there has been a serious lack of reading comprehension for some people responding to GED.
ETA: Within the last couple months there was a man OCing. He was beaten, his gun taken and IIRC the thug robbed and shot someone with said gun. Story can be found on this site
2 points:Open carry invites more crime. When a properly licensed, CCW holder, with his gun on his hip is standing in line at the local grocery store, Wal-Mart, wherever, he/she poses a potential threat to those around them simply because they aren't focused on their weapon but rather everything having to do with their transaction at the register. This gives a bad guy a perfect opportunity to disarm the citizen and perform illegal activities.
1. Bad guys don't look for citizens to disarm and then try to grab their guns. they are not crazy. , want Proof? Look at the other 40+ states that have open carry and try to find incidents where the bad guys disarmed someone who was open carrying.
2. For those who always think it will be one poor guy open carrying in a crowd, i ask: do you think bad guys will be deterred if two or more people in a crowd are open carrying?
I think so!
as for being a "musician" with a gun, i don't see why this should be just restricted to LEOs. I am all in favor of mandatory weapon training in our schools for all free citizens. But please note: 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about ability to shoot as being a prereq to keeping and bearing arms.
+1 . thank you!
Are you kidding me?
If they weren't crazy, they would be law abiding citizens like you and me. Those bastards are koo-koo for Cocoa Puffs. I know crazy, I deal with crazy for a living. You been to your local Wal-Mart around 10-11pm lately? Zombie city! 
As for your last statement...when the 2nd Amendment was written, those men KNEW how to shoot. Everybody from the farmer to the pastor knew their way around their muskets. It provided food on the table and protection from harm. They couldn't just plow thru a thousand rounds on the weekend for shits and grins. They relied on one shot/one kill.
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oklacowboy
Guest
Very good points. I agree 100%
That is why I joined OK2A.ORG and got active. A Chief of Police I worked for many years ago when the whole CCW law was being debated said "We can't let citizens carry guns, if we do every fender bender will turn into a gunfight". I told him I could not believe he had such a low opinion of the good citizens of the great state of Oklahoma.
I had a citizen tell me one time that "anyone who wants to carry a gun is just looking for trouble". I told them I carry a gun and I keep a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher in my car. I asked if they thought I carried the fire extinguisher because I harbored some secret desire to "catch on fire".
Everybody I work with realizes that the chance of being attacked by a violent criminal on any given day is lower than the chance of being injured in a car crash. But, over the span of 20-30 years the odds slant against you. The only hope is to always wear a seat belt, look both ways before crossing the street, and always carry your cellphone and firearm.
There is only one antidote to an armed bad guy, no matter your race, religion, gender, nationality, or sexual preference. That antidote is an armed good guy.
50Shooter
I had a citizen tell me one time that "anyone who wants to carry a gun is just looking for trouble". I told them I carry a gun and I keep a first aid kit and a fire extinguisher in my car. I asked if they thought I carried the fire extinguisher because I harbored some secret desire to "catch on fire".
Everybody I work with realizes that the chance of being attacked by a violent criminal on any given day is lower than the chance of being injured in a car crash. But, over the span of 20-30 years the odds slant against you. The only hope is to always wear a seat belt, look both ways before crossing the street, and always carry your cellphone and firearm.
There is only one antidote to an armed bad guy, no matter your race, religion, gender, nationality, or sexual preference. That antidote is an armed good guy.
50Shooter
I think we are in agreement. yes bad guys are crazy, but they have a strong sense of self preservation. They are not just going to go around grabbing guns off people. As I said, in the 40 States where open carry is legal, are there any cases of guns being grabbed and used against the good guys?Are you kidding me?
As for your last statement...when the 2nd Amendment was written, those men KNEW how to shoot. Everybody from the farmer to the pastor knew their way around their muskets. It provided food on the table and protection from harm. They couldn't just plow thru a thousand rounds on the weekend for shits and grins. They relied on one shot/one kill.
Your second point that everyone knew how to shoot in the old days is a good one and that is why I am all in favor of mandatory weapons training for all free citizens even while in school. it should be part of the school curriculum, like it used to be until the 1960's. Or if not, it should be provided to all of us.
I think we agree on the overall points.
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