Minimum Wage - the fallout!

[Sanford]

A government that allows US companies to manufacture good overseas, then sell the crap back on the American market got us here. We've cut our own throat.

While that doesn't explain all the non-manufacturing jobs that went overseas ... telephone tech support, etc., that provided a fair amount of lower income employment, you can point the finger of blame for the export of most industrial and manufacturing jobs directly at the management of trade unions. It's exactly the same principle as is under discussion about the minimum wage with workers who price themselves higher than the marketplace will bear.

People used to spend a higher percentage of their income on things that lasted years longer and/or could be repaired. Now everything is disposable.

There's a reason for even that, years ago labor was cheap and manufacturing costs were high - then things flipped, and I can buy a complete new coffee pot for less than I can buy just the heating element to repair the warmer, and that's before any talk of labor cost to do the actual replacement, plus whatever insurance the repairer has to carry in case it burns your house down, plus EPA remediation fees for solder fumes or whatever chemicals may be needed, plus FICA, Fedicure, and self-employment taxes ... etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

 

[Norinoo]

1 Samuel 8:18 - And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

The summation of all that is wrong with this nation. So long as people continue to place faith in the idol they created - aka: government - and continue voting selecting politicians criminals in suits to be their leaders, it's only going to keep going downhill. History repeating itself. Sad that most folk don't see it.

 

[dennishoddy]

There's a reason for even that, years ago labor was cheap and manufacturing costs were high - then things flipped, and I can buy a complete new coffee pot for less than I can buy just the heating element to repair the warmer, and that's before any talk of labor cost to do the actual replacement, plus whatever insurance the repairer has to carry in case it burns your house down, plus EPA remediation fees for solder fumes or whatever chemicals may be needed, plus FICA, Fedicure, and self-employment taxes ... etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Exactly, and the fact that everything electronic now is powered by circuit boards that are not repairable contributes to the throw away society. Federal regulations have put most repair shops that operated on a shoe string out of business.

 

[henschman]

I'm really not seeing the moral justification for threatening force against peaceful people whose only power is the power of production, and whose only method of interaction with others is voluntary exchange.

Conversely, I see a real good justification for defensive force against those who want to forcibly limit the ability of others to peacefully associate with others.

I also haven't heard anything here that gives me any reason to doubt the validity of the economic principle of comparative advantage... the idea that if everyone produces whatever goods they can produce the most efficiently and trade with others for that which they cannot produce, everyone is better off. The concept of division of labor makes just as much sense on a macro level as it does on a micro one.

Fair trade = free trade.

 

[tRidiot]

I wonder how we ever survived $5.15 to $7.25.

We should all be unemployed and homeless and living in abandoned businesses after that raise according to most folk in this thread.

I never said those things... but I also know that when minimum was $4.65 we had $1 Whoppers on Sundays. And milk was $2/gallon. And $0.39 tacos at Taco Tico. And $1 double cheeseburgers late night after the bar at Hardee's.

I remember things that way because it was college years. In high school, when minimum was was $3.35, things were even cheaper than that.



Seriously... poor people are just as poor now as ever before, but more of them are on the .gov tit and they're walking around with their smart phones and ****. But still living in janky houses, still driving beater cars and still living paycheck to paycheck (or 3rd of the month to 3rd of the month). Raising the minimum wage is going to make EVERYTHING else more expensive... everything. There's no way it won't "trickle up" to the rest of the market, driving every product price up.

$10 gallon of milk
$7 loaf of bread
$1000/month ****** 2 br apartments in Crackville
$80 to get someone to mow your lawn
$60 oil change at Jiffy Lube
$3 20-oz soda
$11 dozen donuts
$20/hour babysitters
$30 per person movie tickets


I mean... how can you honestly think that raising the lowest wage isn't going to cause all the other associated prices to go up?

It's a wash. The poor folks working at entry-level dead-end jobs aren't any better off now than they were 25 years ago when I entered the workforce in those same entry-level jobs. But minimum wage has more than doubled... why aren't they all driving nice new SUVs and livin' up on the East Side with George and Weezy by now??? Because the market inflates the cost of all goods to move along with it. It's just that simple.

 

[TedKennedy]

I'm really not seeing the moral justification for threatening force against peaceful people whose only power is the power of production, and whose only method of interaction with others is voluntary exchange.

Conversely, I see a real good justification for defensive force against those who want to forcibly limit the ability of others to peacefully associate with others.

I also haven't heard anything here that gives me any reason to doubt the validity of the economic principle of comparative advantage... the idea that if everyone produces whatever goods they can produce the most efficiently and trade with others for that which they cannot produce, everyone is better off. The concept of division of labor makes just as much sense on a macro level as it does on a micro one.

Fair trade = free trade.

I'd agree with you up until we reached the U.S. border. Unfortunately, we have such a screwed-up system, that you'd have to toss the laws out the window and start from scratch to achieve what you're seeking, Hensch.(not that that would be bad!)

Since realistically we can't do that very soon, perhaps taking steps towards a freer U.S. economy would include fewer restrictions on labor/hiring, tariffs that would force U.S. companies to either be U.S. or foreign - no more half and half, producing with foreign labor, then selling to U.S. market unchallenged by domestic production. Maybe a closer look at the kinds of trade agreements we had during our most productive growth years would be beneficial.
Our current trend will surely get our workforce to the same level as our foreign competition in a matter of time, with two classes - rich and poor. We are well on our way.
It must be the Unions' fault. Or maybe it's a gutless corporate team that signed a contract, 'cause last I heard, union contracts had to be agreed to by both sides. Those corporate guys must be some really, really stupid SOBs to sign contracts that would harm their company in such devastating ways. And not just one company, either - it had to be that management of a majority of manufacturers were run by imbeciles so incompetent that they all sign contracts that forced them out of business. Economic Darwinism?

 

[RidgeHunter]

I never said those things... but I also know that when minimum was $4.65 we had $1 Whoppers on Sundays. And milk was $2/gallon. And $0.39 tacos at Taco Tico. And $1 double cheeseburgers late night after the bar at Hardee's.

I remember things that way because it was college years. In high school, when minimum was was $3.35, things were even cheaper than that.



Seriously... poor people are just as poor now as ever before, but more of them are on the .gov tit and they're walking around with their smart phones and ****. But still living in janky houses, still driving beater cars and still living paycheck to paycheck (or 3rd of the month to 3rd of the month). Raising the minimum wage is going to make EVERYTHING else more expensive... everything. There's no way it won't "trickle up" to the rest of the market, driving every product price up.

$10 gallon of milk
$7 loaf of bread
$1000/month ****** 2 br apartments in Crackville
$80 to get someone to mow your lawn
$60 oil change at Jiffy Lube
$3 20-oz soda
$11 dozen donuts
$20/hour babysitters
$30 per person movie tickets


I mean... how can you honestly think that raising the lowest wage isn't going to cause all the other associated prices to go up?

It's a wash. The poor folks working at entry-level dead-end jobs aren't any better off now than they were 25 years ago when I entered the workforce in those same entry-level jobs. But minimum wage has more than doubled... why aren't they all driving nice new SUVs and livin' up on the East Side with George and Weezy by now??? Because the market inflates the cost of all goods to move along with it. It's just that simple.

So an increase in the price of consumer goods is directly caused by an increase in the minimum wage? Any other factors at play here?

People could stand to eat less fast food anyways. Eat veggies and fruit. Most migrant workers that pick it make more than minimum wage. Lawl. Imports excluded. Lawl.

 

[RidgeHunter]

Forget minimum wage.

Can someone explain to me why wages for the 'middle class' (aka 'be happy you're not homeless') have remained stagnant since the late 70s?

Policy decisions or increase in the price of Whoppers and Taco Tico? Lol. One would think wages would have kept pace with inflation, and a dramatic rise in measured overall productivity, ya know, since wage increase cause unsustainable inflation and all.

I myself find American corporations selling 1/3rd of our manufacturing jobs overseas and the middle class losing purchasing power at lightspeed to be sound conservative economic policy. Time to kiss my painting of Ronnie Raygun and head off to work.

 

[ronny]

I believe our underlying problem in this country is that our leaders(?) address ever problem with an artificial solution. They never address the root cause of a problem and deal with it. Rather, they tend to "bribe" it away; throw money or goodies at it and hope it goes away. If their tenure in office/position was dependent on results rather than votes, you can bet things would be different.

 

[RidgeHunter]

Economically speaking, they got results for the people who matter. 80% increase in productivity while wages went up 10%? Those lost percentage points didn't disappear. That's real money and none of us on OSA have any of it.