More .223 reloading questions

[SHOTGUN12]

Man .... you are way overthinking this stuff. The max. length doesn't mean squat, it's just so the round will be able to fit into the magazine. I've loaded tons of these things, a long time ago, so I'm not exactly up to speed on it anymore.
I'll leave my contact number in a PM if you'd like to give me a call.

I think I’ll clarify what I said yesterday.
First, there’s nothing wrong with over thinking something. I tend to do the same thing myself, which is better than not thinking enough.
Too much OAL would not be good because that could cause the bullet to be crammed against the start of the rifling, which could lead to over-pressuring. They might be too long for the mags also.
Ideally there should be approx. 1/16” to 1/8” of gap (freebore, or throat) between the bullet and the start of the rifling when the round is chambered. Usually if you’re using bullets intended to be used with AR ammo, when the bullet cannelure is seated to the mouth of the case, OAL will be pretty close to where it needs to be. .005 or .010” one way or the other isn’t going to make any difference, as long as the case mouth is lined up with the cannelure, for a good consistent crimp.
I wouldn’t worry too much about OAL being a bit shorter than the book calls for, unless it’s way short.
It’s good that you’re sorting the brass, though I’d never use range brass .... you never know how many times they’ve been reloaded, or what’s been done to it. I always used the once-fired Mil brass.
Also, the powder I used was Winchester 748. After trying several, it was the most accurate.

 

[Snake]

For .223 I never could get Varget to work very well. I had the most luck with Hodgdon H 335 and Winchester 748. Always start low and slowly work up until you find that accurate load for your rifle and always look for pressure signs.

 

[Jcelt]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it. I am more concerned about minimum OAL. Lee data calls for a 2.20 MINIMUM OAL and my factory loads measure 1.92 OAL which means my factory loads are substantially shorter than they recommend. As soon as i shoot my factory brass and reload them, they will come out shorter than the recommended minimum OAL. I have a lot of brass right now if I loaded it, it would be shorter than 2.20. That has got me puzzled, it doesn’t seem to make sense. I am concerned because I have read that too short of a round is just as dangerous as a round that is too long. Thanks again.

 

[Glock 40]

1.735 is not a problem the brass will grow after its shot. I said 1.740 because that is the recommended trim length of .223 I have seen brass below 1.740 its not an issue. Also in your first post you said you trimmed to

I trimmed with my Lee trimmer to 1.54

is that a typo?

Also can you post a photo of the federal bullet next to the bullet you are trying to load? Are they they same length? Is that cannelure in the same place?

 

[swampratt]

I think he left out the 7.
My lee .223 trimmer trims cases to 1.754"
I do not worry about where the cannelure is.
I do not crimp but I do set my cases up to be .003" smaller ID than bullet OD.
.224" bullet goes into a case that is .221"
Maybe the cannelure on your bullets is oddly low.
I have had different batch number 30-30 bullets and the cannelure was moved.

 

[Jcelt]

My mistake, I did leave out the 7. I shouldn’t watch westerns and try to type at the same time. I don’t think I’m doing a good job of explaining my question. I have posted a photo of the factory bullet and my bullet. They are almost identical with the factory bullet being a few thousandth longer.

I posted a picture of the factory round in my calipers. I posted a picture of the lee reloading data which shows minimum OAL of 2.20 (and started all my concerns and questions).

I have always followed loading data faithfully. I have a lot of brass, including what I have shot that measures less than my trimming length of 1.754. If I load these they will be substantially shorter than the recommended minimum OAL but about the same length of my factory rounds.

I know I am missing something here and it’s probably simple but i can’t get my head around it. I wouldn’t normally ignore loading data but when I measured my factory round it didn’t make any sense to me of why the difference, especially If I reload to the same length as the factory round( of course I don’t know what powder they are using).

Thanks for all the replies and your patience. I have loaded tons of pistol calibers but this has been a Challenge for me.

 

[Jcelt]

Sorry. Correct photo showing minimum OAL.

 

[swampratt]

I have shot that measures less than my trimming length of 1.754. If I load these they will be substantially shorter than the recommended minimum OAL

Yes there are many .223 cases that will be much shorter than the trim length.

That is a non issue. Seat the bullet to the same OAL in all cases you are using. DO not seat each bullet to the cannelure.
That is not a needed procedure.. consistent AOL is more important for accuracy.

Now I do not mean the measurement of the round from base to tip of bullet as that can be a few thousandths off because the tip of the bullet could get beat a little in shipping.

Just keep the seating die in the same place for all rounds using the same bullet.

The reason so many .223 cases are shorter is Mass production and the fact that the manufacturers want to make darn sure the brass is not too long so they stay way under the SAAMI specs in my opinion.

When I did a brass fail test for .308 I had 4 cases I loaded until they failed.
1 Remington case .
1 Federal case .
1 Lapua case .
1 Winchester case.
I did not trim the cases until the case mouth got into the rifling and that was .030" longer than the MAX SAAMI trim length
for .308 which is 2.015" and minimum is 2.005"
When I did trim them I modified a Lee trimmer to cut the cases to I think 1.990"
This way I could stay at the range and shoot and reload the cases many more times before I had to trim them.

Remington case went 52 or 54 reloads and this was full length sizing each time.
All rounds would print under 1" groups no matter the trim length.

I determined trim length of the brass is a non issue for decent hunting ammo.
My hunting ammo shoots under 1" groups at 100 yards.
I do not crimp.

If you feel you must add a crimp the Lee Factory crimp die will do it and you do not need a cannelure on the bullet to do it with that die.
It may be the same for other dies I do not know.
I use Lee.

Do not worry that you are not at 2.20" OAL that is stated in the Lee paper.
Lee does not do any bullet testing Lee gets their load data from the powder companies.

If your specific bullet is in the load data in a manual it will probably show a short OAL like you experience.
Now one more thing to add to this is your batch number of bullet may be different than what batch number was used at the time Load data was produced.

They could have changed the nose profile of the bullet a bit Tangent Ogive VS a Secant Ogive.

Look that up .
Tangent VS secant Ogive and then now some manufacturers of bullets mix the 2 Ogives to make a hybrid of sort.
And like stated before the cannelure could be moved to a different position.
Maybe a 218 Bee needs it in a different place than a .223 so the manufacturer split the difference..I have no Idea just spit balling.

 

[Jcelt]

Thanks. If I can find any powder, I’ll start loading some and see how they do.

 

[Glock 40]

Here is an example of some ammo all of it is loaded with 8208. The FMJ are 62gr loaded to 2.210 and the V-max are 60gr loaded to 2.260. Lee says load the 60gra to 2.250 and the FMJ to 2.260

Notice on the fmj how there is a difference in where the cannelure hits. That is because this is range brass that hasn't all been trimmed. It is within the trim length specs but I didn't trim it all to the same length. So some rounds the bullet sets a bit deeper in the brass due to the length. The loading manuals are all different between them. They are starting guidelines. Clearly federal don't give a crap about what Lee says.