More Turnpikes

[_CY_]

Its really much more difficult than most people realize. I set new alignments all the time for ODOT. I've done thousands of them and I know the difficulties in accomplishing the goal of setting a safe, cost effective alignment that will make everyone happy. Guess what, that last part is purely impossible. There are many reason proposed alignments are kept quiet until a public meeting can be held to discuss it. Rumors get the phones ringing off the wall with people inquiring and complaining over something that isnt even a reality yet. Someone would have to be on staff 24/7 to field the calls. Also its a damn sure bet, if we leak an alignment map early, someone will run out and build a shack smack dab in the middle of it and call it a business to get 3 times the money over the bare pasture that we chose in order to dodge several houses/oil rigs/cemetery/school/hospital/political figure...the list goes on. I have seen it done plenty and THAT is a huge waste of money. We are not in the business of making people wealthy with the acquisition of land/property in order to provide better access the all Oklahomans...but we are forced to do just that almost every day.
Its a very complicated process...and a painfull one.

if it was to actually better the people of state of Oklahoma .. I'd actually be in favor of turnpikes .. perhaps I'm wrong but as I see it, turnpikes exist purely to profit those in control of building/supporting turnpikes. this very much includes all the profits made by financing bonds to build those turnpike to no-where.

facts are original high volume Oklahoma turnpikes has been paid for many times over .. yet Oklahoma turnpike authority keeps on building and raising tolls to support itself and generate profits for those involved indefinitely.

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in 2013, Turner Turnpike earned $57,302,000, the highest revenue. The Will Rogers Turnpike earned $49,888,000, the second highest revenue. The Chickasaw Turnpike earned $710,000, the least revenue. The higher-earning turnpikes can subsidize the lower-earning turnpikes. In total, Oklahoma turnpike toll revenue totaled $232,746,000.

The OTA reported that the money earned in 2013 paid for $95,959,000 in debt service, $89,369,000 in capital plans and $74,153,000 in maintenance and operations.

now let's compare to cost of construction of Turner Turnpike of $38.5 million. which has been paid for many time over:

All Turner Turnpike construction as certified as complete on November 14, 1953. A total of 91 contracts had been completed by 46 contractors at a total construction cost of $38.5 million. (1953 $38.5 million = $341 million in 2016 dollars) using aprox numbers of $57 million income less maintenance it would take about 10 years to pay off $341 million. wild cards are the rather large costs of bonds.

https://www.pikepass.com/about/History.aspx

 

[CHenry]

They are all fine and dandy until they decide to build one close to your yard bringing all the noise, litter and other nuisances that go with them 200 or so yards from your front door like my folks are getting ready to have to deal with. Their neighbors across the street will have it in their back yard.

Its all about the process of growth. Read my previous post. Its simply impossible to make everyone happy. When I was a kid about 1974, I recall the new construction of I-44 and the interchange with SH-66 (39th street in OKC) being built. My parents had built a new house in 1967 and there was nothing east of us but a vacant field. Now the interstate R/W fence is just across the street and they can set and watch 200,000 vehicles a day pass by. Were they happy? Not at all, but after a few years it became the norm and we were all able to somehow tune out the vehicle noise.
People want/need roadways and access to various places and then they ***** when we try to accomplish that with kid gloves on. Dont like it? Move. Become part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
Oh, and that neighborhood we lived in back then was built by a developer who also owned the field to the east. As soon as he caught wind of a new interstate, he ran out, poured a slab and threw some walls up and called it an "improvement" and he was paid way more than just vacant land because of it. Happens all the time.

 

[CHenry]

if it was to actually better the people of state of Oklahoma .. I'd actually be in favor of turnpikes .. perhaps I'm wrong but as I see it, turnpikes exist purely to profit those in control of building/supporting turnpikes. this very much includes all the profits made by financing bonds to build those turnpike to no-where.

facts are original high volume Oklahoma turnpikes has been paid for many times over .. yet Oklahoma turnpike authority keeps on building and raising tolls to support itself and generate profits for those involved indefinitely.

========

in 2013, Turner Turnpike earned $57,302,000, the highest revenue. The Will Rogers Turnpike earned $49,888,000, the second highest revenue. The Chickasaw Turnpike earned $710,000, the least revenue. The higher-earning turnpikes can subsidize the lower-earning turnpikes. In total, Oklahoma turnpike toll revenue totaled $232,746,000.

The OTA reported that the money earned in 2013 paid for $95,959,000 in debt service, $89,369,000 in capital plans and $74,153,000 in maintenance and operations.

I cant speak on behalf of OTA because I dont understand them either. But look at it like this, its not your money going to construct and maintain it unless you choose to drive it. I kinda like having that option myself. Look at the Kilpatrick, when it was completed, everyone said it was a huge waste of time and money. I remember taking a drive down it days after it opened to just check it out. I was the only vehiicle on that road and I was almost laughing out loud. That was 25 years ago or so. Drive it today and tell me it wasnt needed. More often than not, its true, "if we build it, they will come".

 

[vvvvvvv]

I wouldnt be surprised if that connection is made in the future. from SH-4 north to the turnpike. However, how many cars would use it to go from Norman to Edmond daily? Not many I'm guessing. Currently there isnt enough traffic on the spur to justify its existence.

Based on their current choice of routing to Airport Rd, I'm betting they are going with the Airport Rd - Indian Hills/Franklin Rd plan first. It's really close to the route in the original master plan documents. They could still do the SH-4 route with an interchange at Sara/44th, though. Norman has been fighting against getting any loop coming down that way, turnpike or not.

I cant speak on behalf of OTA because I dont understand them either. But look at it like this, its not your money going to construct and maintain it unless you choose to drive it. I kinda like having that option myself. Look at the Kilpatrick, when it was completed, everyone said it was a huge waste of time and money. I remember taking a drive down it days after it opened to just check it out. I was the only vehiicle on that road and I was almost laughing out loud. That was 25 years ago or so. Drive it today and tell me it wasnt needed. More often than not, its true, "if we build it, they will come".

I remember driving past farmland to get to Mercy (okay, technically riding with my grandparents).

I also remember when Morgan Rd was "just outside the city", and Meridian was "just getting into the city". The Lucent Technologies building sitting in what felt like the middle of nowhere... Garth Brooks Blvd being an oasis (and only on the north side of I-40)....

 

[CHenry]

I remember driving past farmland to get to Mercy (okay, technically riding with my grandparents).

I can't remember if our old house was "in the middle of nowhere" back then. I was more interested in the next episode of Sesame Street than my surroundings at that age lol

 

[farmerbyron]

I wouldnt be surprised if that connection is made in the future. from SH-4 north to the turnpike. However, how many cars would use it to go from Norman to Edmond daily? Not many I'm guessing. Currently there isnt enough traffic on the spur to justify its existence.

That spur almost is a road to nowhere in many ways. How much traffic needs to go from Norman to Mustang/Yukon/West OKC? I don't know but it'd be sweet to make that a quick little 25-30 minute pleasant drive than navigate through the I-240/35 interchange then on up to the Amarillo junction. Eh, what the hell do I know? Just a damn dirt scratching farmer.

 

[SMS]

Someone has been doing some digging....There are more than a few patches of land along the Eastern route that were purchased by LLCs and key individuals shortly after the EOCP was formed.

I knew that would be the case.

https://www.facebook.com/ChoctawROADS/posts/1671304166466872

 

[Poke78]

That spur almost is a road to nowhere in many ways. How much traffic needs to go from Norman to Mustang/Yukon/West OKC? I don't know but it'd be sweet to make that a quick little 25-30 minute pleasant drive than navigate through the I-240/35 interchange then on up to the Amarillo junction. Eh, what the hell do I know? Just a damn dirt scratching farmer.

Speaking from the experience of living in the Mustang/Yukon area and making that drive to connect to I-35 south of Norman, I loved it. All the hassles you describe are by-passed and you're on your way to Dallas-Ft.Worth.

 

[CHenry]

Someone has been doing some digging....There are more than a few patches of land along the Eastern route that were purchased by LLCs and key individuals shortly after the EOCP was formed.

I knew that would be the case.

https://www.facebook.com/ChoctawROADS/posts/1671304166466872

Meh, thats pretty week.

 

[vvvvvvv]

Someone has been doing some digging....There are more than a few patches of land along the Eastern route that were purchased by LLCs and key individuals shortly after the EOCP was formed.

I knew that would be the case.

https://www.facebook.com/ChoctawROADS/posts/1671304166466872

I don't see anything wrong there, especially given that highway through there and on to Norman has been planned for two decades.