Muhammed Ali won't be down for breakfast.

[MadDogs]

Might want to do a little more reading about John Wayne's history.

There have been some that thought John Wayne was a coward or less for not fighting in WW2. Fact is that he was turned down at USNA out of high school and when the war broke out in 1941 he was 34. At that time, no service would take someone who was a single father, 6'4" tall and 34 ... and not that great of an actor.

Some who knew Wayne said he regretted not trying harder to get in. Other "actors" went. That said, I didn't walk in his (or Ali's) shoes so I am not going to judge their integrity regarding military service.

 

[JD8]

None. I'm nothing more than a pathetic ROTC aspirant at the moment. Hopefully I will get contracted, if not I'll probably enlist at some point.

But you can bet your sweet ass if I got a draft notice in the mail, I would do what I had to do.
Just like my father, grandfather, great grandfather etc.

So you're coulda, shoulda, calling him a coward and you yourself have never been drafted? Served in a War? etc? You're just flinging mental feces from a pedestal. Do you have the courage to do what he did? Stand in a boxing ring with the greatest boxers in the world?

It's easy to say what YOU would do now, but are you a black man in the that grew up/lived in the 1950-70s? I'm surprised black men even fought for this country at all from the Civil War to Vietnam, as we as a whole didn't treat them the same to say the very least. If they did, they have my upmost respect, If they didn't, well I'm sorry, but they've got a point. So I'm not justifying, or even saying I agree with what he did, but I don't think courage was one of his problems.

 

[RidgeHunter]

I never said John Wayne was a draft dodger. I implied he was not a war hero. Neither was Elvis (and he "served"). And almost all good country singers of the 20th century were adulterers. Who cares?

 

[RidgeHunter]

really? he was drafted and refused to go. what would you call it

Dodging would have been getting a b.s. deferrment or fleeing.

He willingly faced severe consequences for his stance. That is the opposite of cowardly.

What have our last few R nominees and the last R president done during war time? Ride bicycles around France in a cheap suit and have their creepy wife equate it to serving their country in Vietnam?

 

[otis147]

being forced to serve, and going willingly is no more heroic than refusing and facing severe penalties. maybe your grandpa would have fared better had he openly refused? or followed romney to france, or joined the air guard with dubya?

what is the draft but enslavement by the state? what is cowardly about refusing to become a slave?

 

[Frederick]

So you're coulda, shoulda, calling him a coward and you yourself have never been drafted? Served in a War? etc? You're just flinging mental feces from a pedestal. Do you have the courage to do what he did? Stand in a boxing ring with the greatest boxers in the world?

It's easy to say what YOU would do now, but are you a black man in the that grew up/lived in the 1950-70s? I'm surprised black men even fought for this country at all from the Civil War to Vietnam, as we as a whole didn't treat them the same to say the very least. If they did, they have my upmost respect, If they didn't, well I'm sorry, but they've got a point. So I'm not justifying, or even saying I agree with what he did, but I don't think courage was one of his problems.

First of all, I think it's very disrespectful to refer to me in that manner. Let's be clear, my personal history has nothing to do with this and I feel you're just personally attacking me to try and discredit my opinion. I don't think you should have necessarily served for your opinion of draft dodgers to be valid. That's an absurd stance.

Do I have the courage to go get my face beat in? No. I know what boxing does to you, not worth it.

being black was and is not an excuse to break the law. So if our country was being invaded by the Russians, it would be totally a-OK with you if blacks just decided not to be drafted?

 

[otis147]

So if our country was being invaded by the Russians, it would be totally a-OK with you if blacks just decided not to be drafted?

if russia invaded the u.s for no good reason, would those troops be obligated by duty to russia to travel here and kill us?

 

[otis147]

the vietnam war was unjust and inexcusable. why anybody who claims to love the land of the free would hold a grudge against those who refused to become slaves is beyond me.

 

[nofearfactor]

6 pages. Hahahahaaaaahahaaaaaa...

 

[JD8]

First of all, I think it's very disrespectful to refer to me in that manner. Let's be clear, my personal history has nothing to do with this and I feel you're just personally attacking me to try and discredit my opinion. I don't think you should have necessarily served for your opinion of draft dodgers to be valid. That's an absurd stance.

Do I have the courage to go get my face beat in? No. I know what boxing does to you, not worth it.

being black was and is not an excuse to break the law. So if our country was being invaded by the Russians, it would be totally a-OK with you if blacks just decided not to be drafted?

I'm not really worried about your respect given some of the comments you've made in this thread and others.

The point is and remains, is not simply that whether you have to have served to have some perspective on "draft dodgers." I'm pointing out that you're not a black man that had to face racism in his time, and then was asked to go fight in a war that even many white people didn't believe in. Much less a black man that was told he was pretty much subhuman all his life. Now if you had fought in the war, were black, been drafted etc......then you could say you walked in his shoes at least in part.

He didn't answer the call to the military because of his religious beliefs, racism, whatever.... in which I disagree with that notion wholeheartedly. But I believe in the right to do so.