New to CC, Legal Questions

[oneup_shroom]

Hello I am new to this forum,

I have searched the legal posts quite a bit and haven't found much to answer my questions on what I can and cannot do with my CC Permit. I have read the official SDA laws posted https://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_LAW_BOOK.pdf and admittedly I am a little confused when it comes to a few things.

To start out some background. I grew up shooting and carrying firearms (for hiking and hunting) in Alaska. So now that I have submitted my paperwork for CC Permit in Oklahoma, I am trying my best to fully understand the local laws that pertain to being a permit holder. Please forgive my incompetence when trying to understand the local laws if these questions are obvious, I just want to be sure. I will try my best to be organized in my questions.

Question 1:
Pertaining to posted signs on non alcohol serving establishments and non government buildings/schools. It is my understanding because of the rights of the business owner they are able to post signs requesting that CC holders do not carry inside their building. But that if a carrier chooses to carry on the private business grounds and in the building that they are subject to worst case being asked to leave. If then the CC holder refuses he can be subject to trespassing charges. I have drawn these conclusions from section D of Title 21 § 1290.22 quoted below. Is my understanding correct or could I lose my CC if I walk into walmart with my gun (by accident or on purpose)?

TITLE 21 § 1290.22 BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS

D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on
property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may subject
the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to
leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation for an amount not to
exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00).

Question 2:
I have seen a few posts about having LOADED rifles and shotguns in the car as a backup. Is this legal to carry a loaded long gun in your vehicle on top of having your handgun? I am really confused because in TITLE 21 § 1289.7 it says:

Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle, shotgun or pistol, open and unloaded, at
any time. For purposes of this section “open” means the firearm is transported in plain view, in a case designed for carrying
firearms, which case is wholly or partially visible, in a gun rack mounted in the vehicle, in an exterior locked compartment or
a trunk of a vehicle.
Any person, except a convicted felon, may transport in a motor vehicle a rifle or shotgun concealed behind a seat of
the vehicle or within the interior of the vehicle provided the rifle or shotgun is not clip, magazine or chamber loaded. The
authority to transport a clip or magazine loaded rifle or shotgun shall be pursuant to Section 1289.13 of this title.

Any person who is the operator of a vehicle or is a passenger in any vehicle wherein another person who is licensed
pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act to carry a handgun, concealed or unconcealed, and is carrying a handgun or
has the handgun in such vehicle, shall not be deemed in violation of the provisions of this section provided the licensee is in
or near the vehicle.

The only specification it gives in this section is for handguns when the carrier is licensed, so I am confused on how the long gun in vehicles thing works? Are people just having them unloaded in the car? or are they in the trunk? how effective can they be if they are not easily accessed by not being in the main cabin of the vehicle?

Question 3:
This one I don't have a quote for because I couldn't find really anything on it, I could be blind or it could be a gray area for all I know. My CC instructor was very clear on the fact that you can only have one loaded firearm at anytime when using your CC permit. How does this come into play if lets say I have a vehicle handgun mounted under my dash and a concealed one on my person? This is hypothetical and is not taking place at this time, but I could see the possibility if I wanted quick access to my weapon without having to move it from concealment to a dash mount every time I enter the vehicle. Is it illegal to have more than one loaded weapon within reach? Or was my instructor incorrect and I could theoretically carry 5 handguns on my person?

Thank you so much for anyone that will take time to respond, and I apologize if this is a redundant post that has been answered a thousand times.

 

[Jack T.]

1) Yes, they can ask you to leave. If you don't, it is criminal trespass.
2) Magazine loaded is fine, not chamber loaded (as long as you have your permit).
3) No limit on the number of loaded firearms under your control.

 

[KOPBET]

... My CC instructor was very clear on the fact that you can only have one loaded firearm at anytime when using your CC permit.

Geez, where do these guys come up with this crap?

 

[Rod Snell]

I let my instructor license expire when the legislature authorized doing the written part online and then going to an instructor for only the shooting part. I refused to instruct under those rules.

All of your questions should have been answered by reading the SDA and asking clarification questions in your handgun carry class. I've had students misquote me, so I am making no judgement about what your instructor did or didn't say. It does not matter what you think he said, or what I say: ONLY what is in the written law.
However, much of what you are saying you think you know is wrong.
#3. There is nothing in the SDA concerning how many guns you may have, carry, transport, or store. So, no rules, means no rules. Don't make any up.
#2.

“open” means the firearm is transported in plain view, in a case designed for carrying
firearms, which case is wholly or partially visible, in a gun rack mounted in the vehicle, in an exterior locked compartment or
a trunk of a vehicle.

note the list says "OR". You only have to meet ONE condition, not all of them.

The authority to transport a clip or magazine loaded rifle or shotgun shall be pursuant to Section 1289.13 of this title.

This applies when you are licensed.

#1 Wal mart in OK is not posted, and in generally follows the laws of the state where the store is located.

The places in the SDA that are statutorially off-limits DO NOT HAVE TO BE POSTED. Memorize them and stay out of them. Texans get into trouble in OK if they start looking for their 30.06 signs and carry into a courthouse in OK because there is no sign.

Carry of firearms on private property is subject to the control of the owner, just like you in your house. You come to my house and I ask you to leave, say OK, about face and depart. Give me any grief after my request and I can have you arrested for trespass. Pretty simple.

I'll give you the same speech I gave at the end of all my classes: READ the SDA, it is in good English and better written than some states. If you have read all the relevant sections and truly do not understand how to comply with the law, then you need to hire a qualified lawyer to advise you. When you go before a judge, he will not care about what I said, or what you thought it might also mean, and certainly NOTHING you get off the internet qualifies as legal advice that will be admissible in a court of law. IANAL.

 

[oneup_shroom]

Thanks Korbet and Jack T for replying.

I thought it was really weird and I even asked him about it because I didn't remember reading about the limit of firearms in any laws. But he was very confident he was right, so I took him for his word.

and for Question 2 about the long guns. So I can put an AR-15 under the back seat and be fine as long as the chamber is not loaded? That's cool! has anyone had issues with Law enforcement over this since you have to tell them you have weapons in the car if you get pulled over for a traffic stop?

 

[oneup_shroom]

Thank you for the detailed reply Rod Snell. I plan on taking more training through USSA, but before I strapped my gun on I wanted to make sure things were known in my head. And I didn't know Walmart does not post in OK, I guess I just assumed they did. but I guess I fell into the trap of what they say about Assumptions.

 

[Surveyor1653]

Check out TDSA for training. Their schedule for 2016 should be posted soon. Also, you might pick up some short classes at 2A from time to time as well.

 

[KOPBET]

So I can put an AR-15 under the back seat and be fine as long as the chamber is not loaded?

You can put it under the back seat, carry it in your lap, or hang it with the fuzzy dice, magazine loaded but not chamber loaded. I personally wouldn't transport it magazine loaded, since I don't necessarily trust the next LEO to stop me to not somehow find a way to furck with me and use that charging handle to set me up for fail.

I second TDSA.

 

[Fredkrueger100]

The old law read if you carried into a place that was posted no guns they could tell you to leave and if you refuse you could be charged with trespassing. Now the only thing that can happen is they can ask you to leave and if you refuse and the police are called you can be issued a ticket. You WILL NOT be charged with trespassing. And for the record, our licenses are not concealed carry permits anymore. You can carry concealed or in the open with a license. Hope this helps you out. The "trespassing" law was changed in November of 2014 I believe. Basically what it does is still give business the right to tell people to leave while also giving us the right to carry past a sign and not be risking a trespassing charge.

TITLE 21 § 1290.22 BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS

 

[KOPBET]

The "trespassing" law was changed in November of 2014 I believe. Basically what it does is still give business the right to tell people to leave while also giving us the right to carry past a sign and not be risking a trespassing charge.

TITLE 21 § 1290.22 BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS

Indeed. I'd rather leave than get a $250 ticket...