Ok, just curious, anyone here favor an expander plug (NOE, Lyman, Sinclair, etc) over the expander ball on the decapping spindle?
If you use that do you use a dry lube?
If you use that do you use a dry lube?
I use the expander ball on the decapper stem but have not tried other types except Lee neck sizer die.
I do polish my expander though.
As the factory machine marks add friction i do not care for.
Wet sand paper in 1500 and then 2000 grit while the expander is spinning in a drill or drill press.
Then an automotive machine glaze is used to really put the shinola on it.
The machine glaze will take out swirl marks from paint and is a must have for me.
I also polish the inside of my dies.
I have tried the dry lube and I found it takes much more force to size than Imperial sizing die wax or Hornady Unique case lube.
If you wish to try the dry neck lube I have some I will give you.
I used it and hated it and it sits on the shelf.
I do polish my expander though.
As the factory machine marks add friction i do not care for.
Wet sand paper in 1500 and then 2000 grit while the expander is spinning in a drill or drill press.
Then an automotive machine glaze is used to really put the shinola on it.
The machine glaze will take out swirl marks from paint and is a must have for me.
I also polish the inside of my dies.
I have tried the dry lube and I found it takes much more force to size than Imperial sizing die wax or Hornady Unique case lube.
If you wish to try the dry neck lube I have some I will give you.
I used it and hated it and it sits on the shelf.
Swampratt, very generous offer on the lube.
Here’s the reason for the question. First, I have 800-900 cases I’d like to fill.
I’ve been off on a Black Powder Cartridge Rifle (BPCR) tangent for about six years, casting and loading for matches. Before that it was vintage levers. With Cast bullets its pretty standard to use an expander such as this. I do, for anywhere from 32-40 to 45-70. I’ve not dabbled with high-velocity bottlenecks and jacketed bullets nearly so much. I have for the M1A and want to for the AR-.308. But dang I don’t like those buttons on the decapping spindle and the way they feel on the upstroke. And too, if I wanted to control neck tension more, your plunger could be tailored for that.
But, I’ve never tried polishing one so there is that. But I did have the thought that possibly a guy might get away without lubing the necks if using a straight-walled expander. There is no need for inside lube with a 32-40, 35-40, 38-55, 40-65 or 45-70! But those are all straight-wall and I’ve never even felt handle pressure behind the ram doing it for a 30 cal bottleneck so just didn’t know.
But what would you gain by not lubing the necks a person would rightly want to know. And I was thinking you’d do away with a second tumbling to get rid of lube. Maybe not, if you thought you’d still need to tumble to get rid of the lube on the outside of the case.
Anyway - that is the long way of explaining why I asked the questions. If I saved a second tumbling on eight or 900 cases and got an exact neck tension, that wouldn’t be nothing. Then again I’ve had some boneheaded ideas before in my time at the loading bench.
At any rate, I appreciate your response and again the offer is very gracious.
I will eventually get to the answer of that question.
My .308 and my other bottle necked rifle cases all get annealed after the first depriming and cleaning.
Then necks get brushed out with a NYLON bore brush or worn bore brush with 0000 steel wool wrapped around it.
After annealing your inside case necks get some kind of carburizing which makes the inside of the necks very rough.
Take some dial calipers and measure the necks inside diameter and while you are measuring that slowly spin the case in your fingers and you can feel the roughness.
Brush the necks and that roughness goes away.
Result is less pressure or drag when sizing.
Now lube inside the necks. it does not take much ..you can run a lubed finger over the case mouth or
rotate a Qtip into the lube and rotate it slightly around the case mouth.
After sizing i wipe out the case neck with a Qtip.
I do not tumble again and I also wipe the outside of the case down.
I go through a lot of paper towels or terry cloth towels.
I save the paper towels for fire starter.
Now Very Important.... If I do not lube every case the same I will have different shoulder Ogive measurements.
If you have more drag on the upstroke you will pull that shoulder farther forward.
If you measure things to the .001" you will see what I am talking about.
I want to size my case as little as possible (Bolt Gun) so my dies do not move any dimensions on the case more than .002" from fired except for the neck of course.
I have done brass fail tests and can get 50+ reloads from full length sized cases in .308.
Not winchester cases though that is about 18 reloads.. they are thin.
Stupid accurate though.
Looking at that picture the machined rough part is way below Neck ID and the next few thousandths maybe .030" worth will expand the neck.
It actually looks to me like a flaring setup for the purpose of flaring a case neck for cast bullets.
I say that based on the copper looking build up on the shiny part of the tool that is about .020" to .030" thick.
I may be all wrong on that and if I am that is one rough looking surface.
You are exactly right Swampratt, that is for my Ballards and Vintage levers. Just wanted to show an example. That one is from BACO. I’d thought to use NOE if I went this route.
Coug91, thanks for the image. Very nice.
Coug91, thanks for the image. Very nice.
Well I just had to try the straightwall expander. Works like a champ. No difference in shoulder/datum measurements with or without lube between standard RCBS die/expander vs a custom NOE expander.
But confess I don’t think it would save time by avoiding a second tumbling since you are either tumbling or one-at-a-time wiping Hornady One Shot or Imperial Wax from the outside with a cloth. Probably a wash on time.
Only advantage would be if you wanted a specific neck tension that a custom sized expander would provide.
Satisfied my curiosity anyway!
But confess I don’t think it would save time by avoiding a second tumbling since you are either tumbling or one-at-a-time wiping Hornady One Shot or Imperial Wax from the outside with a cloth. Probably a wash on time.
Only advantage would be if you wanted a specific neck tension that a custom sized expander would provide.
Satisfied my curiosity anyway!
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