RE: Concealment Challenge January 29 at Heartland Outdoors

[MoBoost]

First off - want to thank all the guys that help to organize the event, it was my first try it pistol shooting on the move, and I had fun while shooting.

Second - it was very poorly organized event.

It took 4 hours to shoot just 4 stages (+1 stage being two shot draw) - total shooting time - less than 2 minutes. With cost $20 - that's $10/min: I'm going to venture a guess that it is by far the most expensive entertainment in great state of Oklahoma.

Suggestions:
- Sign-up sheet
- Run match in tiers.
- 6-10 shooters per tier MAX
- more stages per $
- white board with CURRENT results.

 

[MrShooter]

They did give away alot of stuff though...lol

(It was my first match, so I have nothing to compare it to, but I enjoyed it and the people there was very helpful..both Will's & LB)

 

[technetium-99m]

Turning an hour per stage is all you can hope for at an indoor match with only two bays. When squad size gets over about 15 an hour per stage is acceptable. The match also wont start until the range closes to the public. Come on out to OKCGC on the first Saturday if practical pistol is on your to do list. Lots of shooting and out in the open air.

 

[MoBoost]

Breaking the whole group into just two tiers - say #1 @ 6:00, #2 @ 8:00 would only add 5 minutes for resetting the stages, but would cut down the wait for participants between the stages in half.

I'm definitely not going to another event unless it has sign-up sheet with a squad limit (per tier). I don't think it's unreasonable - since it's done in every other discipline I've shot in.

 

[David E]

.


Was this your first action pistol match?

I wish you had brought these concerns to my attention last night, as I was available, or sent me a PM. I will address your concerns here so you can understand the some of the dynamics of running a shooting match.

First off - want to thank all the guys that help to organize the event, it was my first try at pistol shooting on the move, and I had fun while shooting.

Second - it was very poorly organized event.

Ok, first you thank the organizers, then immediately insult them for not being organized?

It took 4 hours to shoot just 4 stages (+1 stage being two shot draw) -

No, that was 4 hours for FIVE stages, one of which was a two shot draw. Many people have no idea how fast they can draw and fire two shots on a close-in target; now they do. We did this about a year ago and they can compare their times to see if they improved.

total shooting time - less than 2 minutes. With cost $20 - that's $10/min: I'm going to venture a guess that it is by far the most expensive entertainment in great state of Oklahoma.

If you're going to base your entertainment on a shooting time/per dollar basis, then maybe shooting USPSA or IDPA matches aren't for you. (or you can shoot slower and/or more rounds) I've shot National matches where my actual shooting time was 2-3 minutes, spread out over a couple days. Was I upset about that? Yes, I wish my shooting time had been less!

Suggestions:
- Sign-up sheet

We had a sign up sheet when you, you know, signed in. Or maybe you're talking about a squad sheet where you can pick a squad to shoot on. Thet doesn't work very well when you only have two bays.

- Run match in tiers.
- 6-10 shooters per tier MAX

Ok, let's do that......now we have 5-8 "tiers" of shooters. I don't see how that will make anything end any sooner.

- more stages per $

More stages means more time and isn't that what you're already complaining about?

- white board with CURRENT results.

I've only seen a "current results" available at the Nationals where they used Palm Pilots to keep score and were able to wirelessly upload the information for all to see. The problem was, of course, that Shooter "A" shot stages 1-10, while Shooter "B" has shot stages 7-15. How can you tell who's winning? Lacking Palm Pilots and the necessary equipment to pull that off, we're just going to have to muddle thru entering the scores manually and getting results later that same night. When I first started shooting IPSC/USPSA, results were mailed out a week (or two) later, so getting final results minutes after the last shot is fired is still pretty remarkable to me.

Breaking the whole group into just two tiers - say #1 @ 6:00, #2 @ 8:00 would only add 5 minutes for resetting the stages, but would cut down the wait for participants between the stages in half.

How? Tell me how that changes anything. Let's put YOU in Tier 2. You don't shoot until 8 pm. You arrived at 5:30. What do you do until then? Let's say Tier 1 finishes up at 7:45.....but you're at Johnnies, along with the rest of your Tier. Now we have dead time. Then you straggle in from 8 to 8:15...... more dead time. Let's put you in Tier 1. You shoot stages 1 and 2 first, NOW what? You wait for Tier 2 to shoot them? Or I have 4-6 short stages that are all set up, so there's nothing to move/add/adjust for the other stages. Then I'd get complaints from first time shooters about not having enough movement, etc. But putting that aside, Tier 2 still must wait AND be on time (whenever that time is) to shoot the stages. What does Tier 1 do whilst Tier 2 shoots? Leave? Wouldn't Tier 2 shooters be irritated at having to tear down by themselves? We actually tried a 4-squad system before and it didn't work very well for the reasons cited.

I mentioned at the beginning that since there were so many shooters that taking breaks was expected, just not to take ALL break and do none of the work.

I'm definitely not going to another event unless it has sign-up sheet with a squad limit (per tier). I don't think it's unreasonable - since it's done in every other discipline I've shot in

I'm curious what other shooting disciplines you've shot, since you have these expectations. Action pistol matches are very different from static shooting sports. In those pursuits, often the time frame and possible points are already known. If you know the maximum score is 500 points and the maximum time allowed to shoot the various targets/positions is 30 minutes, then you can do all the things you're talking about. Nothing to clean up, tape or reset, so shoot and go home, even tho there are more shooters following you. Shooter "A" scored a 489, Shooter "B" scored 491, etc, and you know that you don't shoot until 10:30. But the Action shooting sports aren't, thank God, so constricted. This is much of USPSA/IDPA/3-Gun's allure.

Heartland Outdoors is the only match that actually gives away prizes. 7 Award Medallions were given to the KyTac Concealment Challenge Division winners. And a KyTac holster and SEVEN, count 'em, SEVEN, $50 Gift certificates is nothing to sneeze at.

By the way..........if you are who I think you are, you might be interested to know........YOUR name was called for the first $50 Gift certificate......but you must be present to win.....

 

[Burk Cornelius]

So, other than it being too expensive, too long, and too unorganized, did you enjoy yourself? [sarcasm]

I too, am curious what other competitive shooting events you have attended?

First off - want to thank all the guys that help to organize the event, it was my first try it pistol shooting on the move, and I had fun while shooting.

Second - it was very poorly organized event.

It took 4 hours to shoot just 4 stages (+1 stage being two shot draw) - total shooting time - less than 2 minutes. With cost $20 - that's $10/min: I'm going to venture a guess that it is by far the most expensive entertainment in great state of Oklahoma.

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

what other matches have you been to that this technique has been used effectively?? every match in the state is pretty much set up this way, OKCGC have 7 stages that will take 7-8 hours to completely, 3gun is 4-5 stages taking 5 hours to complete... also you state it is expensive but want to use equipment and technology that costs more money (hence raising the price to cover costs)??

 

[Pstmstr]

Let's see, if I pay a $20 green fee plus half a cart at $10, that's $30. I get to actually hit the ball (for me) about 85 times at less than 3 seconds per swing but get to sit in the cart for over 4 hours while 4 beer drinking hackers party in front of me, that's about 255 seconds of actual golf or about $7.05 per minute to play golf based on this math. I'd like tiered golf where I can just hit the ball 85 times and go home. Oh, that would be the practice range. A place I seldom visit, but that's good, because then I might just have to hit it 75 times and get even less bang for my buck.
I'm just messing with you Running 50 shooters on 2 bays is tough no matter how you do it. Those of us who have been addicted to this shooting game a few years have tried ways to speed things up. For example, last night, we had about 5 guys who stood around in the back talking about how tacticool they were while most everybody else helped to keep things moving. If those 5 stayed home next time, we could finish faster. If waiting is an issue for you, this ain't you're sport. Its getting a lot more popular and local matches have more attendees than ever before. Used to be, we wouldn't see match results for at least a couple of days. Now, at least 3 local matches have the results on site at the end. I'd say take a dose of patience and try to enjoy the sport, or take up golf. Just don't get in front of me, I hate to wait for my next 3 seconds of pleasure.

 

[technetium-99m]

No one is more tacticool than me.

Moboost, waiting is something we've gotten used to in the action shooting sports, matches are getting very popular and as attendance goes up so does the time it takes to turn a stage. Like I said, an hour to turn a stage is very reasonable.

And your name was picked for a gift certificateby the way.

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

Let's see, if I pay a $20 green fee plus half a cart at $10, that's $30. I get to actually hit the ball (for me) about 85 times at less than 3 seconds per swing but get to sit in the cart for over 4 hours while 4 beer drinking hackers party in front of me, that's about 255 seconds of actual golf or about $7.05 per minute to play golf based on this math. I'd like tiered golf where I can just hit the ball 85 times and go home. Oh, that would be the practice range. A place I seldom visit, but that's good, because then I might just have to hit it 75 times and get even less bang for my buck.
I'm just messing with you Running 50 shooters on 2 bays is tough no matter how you do it. Those of us who have been addicted to this shooting game a few years have tried ways to speed things up. For example, last night, we had about 5 guys who stood around in the back talking about how tacticool they were while most everybody else helped to keep things moving. If those 5 stayed home next time, we could finish faster. If waiting is an issue for you, this ain't you're sport. Its getting a lot more popular and local matches have more attendees than ever before. Used to be, we wouldn't see match results for at least a couple of days. Now, at least 3 local matches have the results on site at the end. I'd say take a dose of patience and try to enjoy the sport, or take up golf. Just don't get in front of me, I hate to wait for my next 3 seconds of pleasure.

great post