Refuse 2 Enroll!

[Shadowrider]

CharlieMurphy, I've got to side with the others. This law is such a target rich environment that we do need to stick to the actual "targets" and not make up any. I understand a lot of what you are saying and agree with some of it, but as the regs are written and implemented we ought to just sit back and let them hang themselves so to speak.

Another twist on this is that I heard a democrat on the tube the other night state that the republicans had to work with the democrats to try and fix this and make a workable system since it was the "law of the land, constitutionally passed and upheld by SCOTUS. Had I been in the room I would have shouted:

Why? Why would they when they've been against it all along? What could they hope to gain by helping make something work that not a single one of them voted for? How in God's name can you state that they have a duty to do so when they were not allowed to have any input whatsoever in it? So the democrats passed this monstrosity single handedly and you want the repubs to help fix it? It was clearly "sold" as an outright lie by a candidate running for POTUS, a sitting POTUS and the same RE-elected POTUS that is still lying! Had Obama stated that all the things we are seeing now was going to happen with "his plan" he would have had ZERO chance of being elected in the first place much less re-elected, so just how in sam hell do you justify the repubs coming to your rescue? It would have never passed congress had they been truthful.

I would have gotten no reply that would have been honest and had any basis of what's right for the country. Point being that they are cinching up the noose that they themselves have placed around their own neck. Lets just sit back and watch the American public kick the chair out from under them.

 

[tRidiot]

Side with whomever you like... the fact is, they can, do and WILL continue to tell doctors how to treat patients. This monstrosity allows them futher lattitude to do exactly that, on a grander, more comprehensive scale. They are already talking about cutting pay for priamry care physicians who work in clinics even more (you know, those lowest-paid amongst the supposedly "super-elite"?).

Try this scenario on for size:

You are a primary care physician operating a clinic in a rural area (or an inner-city, whichever you choose). You have a large population of poorly-controlled diabetics and hypertensives who smoke, eat terrible fast-food diets or "comfort food", are morbidly obese and poorly-motivated.

You counsel them every time they come to the office (which is less than you'd like to see them because you just can't get them interested in cokming). They just want you to prescribe them another pill to "fix it". They have no motivation in their own care, no incentive to fix themselves or comply with treatment, and you watch them die off one by one from heart attacks and strokes, or have limbs cut off one by one from diabetes.

You used to see your patients in the local hospital, but now you no longer have time. Since you're required to see 40-50 patients per day in the clinic just to make ends meet - this takes usually 9-10 hours, having a quick "lunch" at your desk (meaning grabbing a bite of your sandwich while running in and out of rooms, as it gets colder and soggier) while seeing patients, filling out insurance authorizations, prior-auths for medications and calling specialists who ignore your messages trying to get procedures or consults for those of your patients who need something extra you can't provide. Spending an extra hour or two rounding on patients at the hospital (which means getting up at 5AM every day and taking call every single night) just got to be too much, since you'd also frequently have to go back after clinic to see them if they were in the ICU or something, then spend several hours a night working on computerized charts from home trying to finish all your clinic notes and other assorted paperwork.

16-hour days are the norm.

Now... the .gov says to you, "Sorry, Dr. X, we've been examining the computerized documentation of your patients provided in our national database, and we see that not only do they not have their labwork performed on a 'routine-enough'" basis, but when they do, their cholesterol is on average too high, and their blood sugars are also out of optimal range. Therefore, we're going to start reimbursing you less money for each visit by 10% this quarter and 15% next quarter, unless you get your patients' blood sugars and cholesterol levels under control and get them to do their labs more frequently. In fact, this reduction in reimbursement will continue until your patients' health improves." Meanwhile, Dr. Y, up in a fancy-ritzy area of the big city, whose patients are all upper-income, privately-insured up-and-coming businesspeople who work out regularly, avoid poor diets, don't smoke and are more motivated and concientious people, will be receiving an increase in his reimbursement, because he has better outcomes.

Sounds like a great plan, doesn't it?

Get ready... it's coming. In fact, they've already TOLD us they're going to do this, as soon as they get a national database for monitoring people's health. It's coming.

What do you think your doctor is going to do, when you've had 6 months'-worth of poor labwork and you are beginning to affect her bottom line, all the while requiring more time and effort?

That's right... sayonara. You're gonna get cut like an overweight wide receiver.

Bury your heads in the sand and lsay it can't happen. Go ahead.

 

[dennishoddy]

Death Panels. "Some people live, some people die" Kathleen Sebelius.

 

[Lurkerinthewoods]

Yeah.... still don't see an ounce of foundation to what you've said.

Since you seem to be so in love with the ACA. Can you please answer this one question? Why doesn't the ACA apply to members of congress and the president? If it's so good for us, why doesn't it apply to them?

Ok, maybe two questions.

 

[dennishoddy]

When Charlie Rangle was asked this question, he said the subsidies were part of his compensation, and didn't understand what the issue was.

 

[JD8]

Since you seem to be so in love with the ACA. Can you please answer this one question? Why doesn't the ACA apply to members of congress and the president? If it's so good for us, why doesn't it apply to them?

Ok, maybe two questions.

This is the problem with a number of "conservatives." If you ask or consider critical thinking as part of your opinion in contrast to being a FUD lemming then you are obviously in favor of liberalism. The assumed knuckle dragging argument that if you aren't with us, you're against us. I can't answer your questions because I have I no way defended the ACA, nor will I. Heck I even told someone NOT to enroll earlier in the thread if they REALLY want to effect the law. Hint: Subsidized or non-subsidized you will be contributing to the insurance pool.

In fact I probably have more financial incentive than most here to hate this law as I broker health insurance mostly to small businesses in the service industry. I can tell you those plans are all but gone now or will be within a year. Either way, you learn a thing or two about what state and federal laws say and especially what this law says, when what you say can get you sued.

All that being said, the rhetoric that the Gestapo will show up at your door if you are sick and execute you just doesn't sit well with me. If it does with you.... great.... you are playing into Liberal hands IMO. Instead of arguing the 9,792,389 valid and real world reasons why the ACA should be repealed, people here keep concentrating and parroting Alex Jones fueled emails. I think we are being handed political gifts every day this thing is stalled and the current administration is exposed, yet we worry about coulda, shoulda, woulda paranoid interpretations. The main method of motivation of conservatives is fear, especially in the gun community, which is sad and embarrassing to me. If the conservatives keep this up it will almost certainly guarantee the second coming of Klinton.

 

[Shadowrider]

Side with whomever you like... the fact is, they can, do and WILL continue to tell doctors how to treat patients. This monstrosity allows them futher lattitude to do exactly that, on a grander, more comprehensive scale. They are already talking about cutting pay for priamry care physicians who work in clinics even more (you know, those lowest-paid amongst the supposedly "super-elite"?).

Try this scenario on for size:

You are a primary care physician operating a clinic in a rural area (or an inner-city, whichever you choose). You have a large population of poorly-controlled diabetics and hypertensives who smoke, eat terrible fast-food diets or "comfort food", are morbidly obese and poorly-motivated.

You counsel them every time they come to the office (which is less than you'd like to see them because you just can't get them interested in cokming). They just want you to prescribe them another pill to "fix it". They have no motivation in their own care, no incentive to fix themselves or comply with treatment, and you watch them die off one by one from heart attacks and strokes, or have limbs cut off one by one from diabetes.

You used to see your patients in the local hospital, but now you no longer have time. Since you're required to see 40-50 patients per day in the clinic just to make ends meet - this takes usually 9-10 hours, having a quick "lunch" at your desk (meaning grabbing a bite of your sandwich while running in and out of rooms, as it gets colder and soggier) while seeing patients, filling out insurance authorizations, prior-auths for medications and calling specialists who ignore your messages trying to get procedures or consults for those of your patients who need something extra you can't provide. Spending an extra hour or two rounding on patients at the hospital (which means getting up at 5AM every day and taking call every single night) just got to be too much, since you'd also frequently have to go back after clinic to see them if they were in the ICU or something, then spend several hours a night working on computerized charts from home trying to finish all your clinic notes and other assorted paperwork.

16-hour days are the norm.

Now... the .gov says to you, "Sorry, Dr. X, we've been examining the computerized documentation of your patients provided in our national database, and we see that not only do they not have their labwork performed on a 'routine-enough'" basis, but when they do, their cholesterol is on average too high, and their blood sugars are also out of optimal range. Therefore, we're going to start reimbursing you less money for each visit by 10% this quarter and 15% next quarter, unless you get your patients' blood sugars and cholesterol levels under control and get them to do their labs more frequently. In fact, this reduction in reimbursement will continue until your patients' health improves." Meanwhile, Dr. Y, up in a fancy-ritzy area of the big city, whose patients are all upper-income, privately-insured up-and-coming businesspeople who work out regularly, avoid poor diets, don't smoke and are more motivated and concientious people, will be receiving an increase in his reimbursement, because he has better outcomes.

Sounds like a great plan, doesn't it?

Get ready... it's coming. In fact, they've already TOLD us they're going to do this, as soon as they get a national database for monitoring people's health. It's coming.

What do you think your doctor is going to do, when you've had 6 months'-worth of poor labwork and you are beginning to affect her bottom line, all the while requiring more time and effort?

That's right... sayonara. You're gonna get cut like an overweight wide receiver.

Bury your heads in the sand and lsay it can't happen. Go ahead.

Doc I'm not going to argue this because I know that you are 1000% correct. Sarah Palin was called a "whackadoo" for pointing this out long long ago. It's old news and I don't consider it being a revelation any more. My point was that I don't think we are doing any good by "what if'ing" this monstrosity of a law. The law itself is well over 2000 pages and we have 10 times that in regulations to go with it. And counting! More pointing out of this sort of stuff is just falling on deaf ears. Those that support this whole concept are not going to be persuaded, God knows that there has been ample reason to do a 180 on this thing. It's just astounding to me that anyone that still has the ability to breath could support and still try to justify this law. I think it's the biggest lie ever perpetrated on the American people. That could be outdone if we find that Big "O" isn't really a citizen, but that's a whole nuther thread resuscitation.

We just need to sit back and watch the show until the campaigning starts again, and instead of "playing nice" whomever is running just needs to point to the utter plethora of facts that keeps growing by the day and shout them loudly, unlike the last two elections. I'm of the mind that stating and pointing out actual facts aren't a personal attacks, unlike the GOP. This thing is the gift that keeps on giving, we just need to let it keep happening, which it undoubtedly will.

 

[yukonjack]

I don't know who Alex Jones is and don't know why people always gotta throw him into the mix. As a red blooded American I am sick and tired of the assault on our liberties by the narcissistic politicians in power. The ACA is nothing but another raid on our freedom. Don't want it, don't need it, won't sign up for it.

 

[AKguy1985]

I'm not going to enroll either. I'll keep my employer provided inasurance.

 

[BikerHT]

Fact remains folks...signing up for insurance thru your employer is still enrolling in O-BS-Care ACA!
Your employer will be giving the gubment all the data they are collecting, rather than you submitting the info yourself, were you to use their wonderful website.
Freedoms are lost when the info goes in.

Only 3 ways NOT to enroll and join the Communistic databases:
1) get a private policy
2) claim one of the 9 exemptions
3) do nothing and pay the tax

The best thing this country could do is flat out refuse to enroll. Young, old, black, white, purple, Dem, Rep, Lib, Ind, gay, straight - EVERYONE.
Period. No more sheep.