REPRESENTATIVES. It's a perfect title. Use it.

[SBD]

First let me start by saying that I am not trying to start a fight but the first post is disconcerting. I am not eloquent in my speech and I am not a writer. Most of my writing is in very short emails and the occasional post here. Apologies for the run ons, lack of proper grammer...etc.

I am not going to quote anyone but the theory that Federal Workers are over paid is a load of the stinky stuff. Some probably are but most aren't. Most are indeed white collar. Most likely where what would appear to be a huge average salary is caused by the fact that many of those administrative positions (yes the GVMNT is probably 60% to 70% administrative) are very highly skilled. Many in those positions would probably do much better in the private sector. If one individual I know was willing to move he/she could earn at least 30% more in the private sector. Are there some serious sloths working in government? You bet but most of the people working in those supposed high paying positions are actually very qualified, have a good work ethic and in some cases are over qualified. Think about this: Would you want some minimum wage, occasional pot smoking, 3 time felon guarding "the button". How bout the same person directing air traffic or managing highly security sensitive computer systems? No likely you would want the most highly qualified personnel you could get doing that and as you may guess that wouldn't be cheap.

Another point about the average salary. You have to keep in mind that nearly everyone working for the Fed has to endure a serious background check besides being qualified. So you will not find the same kind of people that inhabit the lower third of the work force in this country in the federal work force (not trying to insult anyone here). Please. Before you begin to regurgitate rhetoric think a little bit. What the media and politicians tell you, whether backed up by some report produced by some supposed credible source is likely very slanted in one direction of the other if any of it has any truth to it at all. Also be mindful that there are those on both sides and in-between that will seek to use that "dis-information" to further their careers and agendas including people that should be looking out for you instead of their own interests. This is even more pronounced when there is a mood of general to extreme discontent in the public. History repeats.

 

[SBD]

There are all kinds of blue collar federal and state employees. The federal employees are on the Wage Grade WG pay scale. Get your facts straight o?

Not necessarily true. I know the FAA is core comp and some other parts of the DOT are too. There are a few other departments that are performance based as will but can't think of them off the top of my head. Now what that means exactly is up for debate but if it were all WG with step increases that would be different but the fact is that they are not.

Also most blue collar work is done by contractors. There are very very few federal employees that are plumbers, road workers, roofers and facility maintenance. Sans the DOD. The DOD is a completely different animal.

 

[1shot(bob)]

What about the USPS and TSA? I'm sure there are others but off the top of my head that's two. Both are overpaid (IMHO).

 

[Glocktogo]

Not necessarily true. I know the FAA is core comp and some other parts of the DOT are too. There are a few other departments that are performance based as will but can't think of them off the top of my head. Now what that means exactly is up for debate but if it were all WG with step increases that would be different but the fact is that they are not.

Also most blue collar work is done by contractors. There are very very few federal employees that are plumbers, road workers, roofers and facility maintenance. Sans the DOD. The DOD is a completely different animal.

This. I'm H-band, step 00. I've been at H-band step 00 for two years, and have no reasonable expectation of a step increase in the near future. My performance evals are not tied to pay, because there is currently no system in place for step increases in my field.

I cannot advance to I-band despite being fully qualified because there's no I-band position for me to advance to, even though my unit is authorized to have one. It's a competitive posting and someone has to leave in order to open up that posting. Unfortunately, they will not let anyone transfer to another position. As soon as they do, the slot will evaporate (placeholder slot), even though we're understaffed. Our staffing levels have been cut every year for 7 straight years, yet there's more work and more reports with more stringent deadlines every year. Can you say Catch-22?

The administration just implemented a 2 year freeze in cost of living adjustments, so no pay raises at all in the foreseeable future for me. All in all, I'm happy to still have a job though. A lot of people don't these days. I don't hear anyone grumbling about the pay freeze, because they know how much worse it could be.

 

[SDarkRage]

$125,000 a year average??? Dang!!! I'm Federal and my average isn't even half that. I'm a maxed out blue-collar WG-10 Aircraft Electrician with 2 bachelors in Business Admin and OPS Management and I can't even get promoted because everyone above me has Masters degrees. And they only make $1.5 an hour more than me. I can make more out in the "real" world but the lack of job security will always keep me from switching over. So tell me Mr. Smarty Pants OP, am I over paid considering my qualifications?

 

[Glocktogo]

$125,000 a year average??? Dang!!! I'm Federal and my average isn't even half that. I'm a maxed out blue-collar WG-10 Aircraft Electrician with 2 bachelors in Business Admin and OPS Management and I can't even get promoted because everyone above me has Masters degrees. And they only make $1.5 an hour more than me. I can make more out in the "real" world but the lack of job security will always keep me from switching over. So tell me Mr. Smarty Pants OP, am I over paid considering my qualifications?

Yeah, I scratched my head on that one too. In another thread it was $75K or so. I'd be willing to bet that the $125K is the COST of the average fed employee, not total compensation. Most folks have no idea just how much it costs a company to employ them for a year.

Funny how the raw numbers can be manipulated to show what you want them to.

 

[SBD]

This. I'm H-band, step 00. I've been at H-band step 00 for two years, and have no reasonable expectation of a step increase in the near future. My performance evals are not tied to pay, because there is currently no system in place for step increases in my field.

I cannot advance to I-band despite being fully qualified because there's no I-band position for me to advance to, even though my unit is authorized to have one. It's a competitive posting and someone has to leave in order to open up that posting. Unfortunately, they will not let anyone transfer to another position. As soon as they do, the slot will evaporate (placeholder slot), even though we're understaffed. Our staffing levels have been cut every year for 7 straight years, yet there's more work and more reports with more stringent deadlines every year. Can you say Catch-22?

The administration just implemented a 2 year freeze in cost of living adjustments, so no pay raises at all in the foreseeable future for me. All in all, I'm happy to still have a job though. A lot of people don't these days. I don't hear anyone grumbling about the pay freeze, because they know how much worse it could be.

Ok. Time to fes-up. I am a fed too and you are right. I don't see that kind of money either and no one including management 2 levels up make that kind of bank. The benefits are not as good as I had in the private sector. I don't complain because I made a conscience decision to stay due to more uncertainty in the private world and because I actually liked what I do. Am in IT (no not PC's and I will not fix your computer). The FAA is core comp so I don't get step increases. In fact this year it appears there will be no increase including one to cover inflation.

 

[Dr_Mitch]

Yeah, I was referencing the study on federal income averages versus the nation's populace. Next time I leap into the fistfight of politics I'll throw in specifics; I was just miffed when I posted. Sometimes my mouth = trouble.

That being said, my comment about aircraft carriers is due to the fact that every time a new one is completed and deployed, shortly thereafter General Dynamics gets another order for what? Another aircraft carrier. I don't recollect the U.S. having any issues whatsoever with air or sea superiority. Not since the 1940s. This is rooted in the lobbyists from the "Military-Industrial Complex" that constantly push for more defense spending, even though we haven't been at total war in many decades.

 

[Rod Snell]

Yeah, I was referencing the study on federal income averages versus the nation's populace. Next time I leap into the fistfight of politics I'll throw in specifics; I was just miffed when I posted. Sometimes my mouth = trouble.

That being said, my comment about aircraft carriers is due to the fact that every time a new one is completed and deployed, shortly thereafter General Dynamics gets another order for what? Another aircraft carrier. I don't recollect the U.S. having any issues whatsoever with air or sea superiority. Not since the 1940s. This is rooted in the lobbyists from the "Military-Industrial Complex" that constantly push for more defense spending, even though we haven't been at total war in many decades.

We are in a quiet cold war with the Chinese, who are building and demonstrating a formidable naval capability to make us impotent in the far east. We will become as unbalanced as in 1940 unless we continually modernize and maintain the infrastructure to build the sophisticated long-lead-time military hardware. A carrier takes 10 years to plan and build, and has a 50-year operational life.
If we lose that capability, what are we going to do when we need it in a hurry? Buy it from the Chinese?

Saving money by letting military hardware become obsolete is a popular target for the militarily unformed, but history has proven it a very expensive way to save money in the long run. France had a very lean and cost effective military until the Germans showed what being #2 really means. In War College, we studied military planning and budgets starting with the Spartans and Athenians, who found that navies and professional soldiers are not something you can obtain in a hurry.

The US Military is underbalanced now, with the Air Force shrinking to the point that air superiorty against a first-class emeny is far from certain. In fact, we have 1/2 the Air Force capability we had when I retired from it. The war plans for the F22s have to consider the fact that our side would run out of ammo in a full-scale air battle before the other side ran out of planes.

And you don't have to lose a shooting war before the other side decides you are weak enough to push around and bully. When it comes to military capability, we are getting dangerously close to that point in the coming decade.

 

[Glocktogo]

I've always felt the Chinese are a sleeping giant. With superior warfighting capability, they can be kept in check and confined to their region. When they begin a massive buildup of long range troop transport capacity, we REALLY need to worry!