Something to consider before you decide to OC

[Danny Tanner]

And there are some who offer training that claim thw opposite too, that OC can make you less of a target as the perp will move on to easier pickings.

Thankfully there is statistical data to back up this claim, while there isn't for the opposing argument.

Oh David, so young so much to learn. Crackhead decides to be a tough guy. Takes your gun, shots you, shots everyone else so he don't leave no witnesses. Bad deal. Likely to happen? Who knows? Depends on where you hang out. You said you went to Braums, tough crowd there. Cops are supposed to have weapons retention training, every year some will get there guns snatched away from them. Sometimes they die, others too. Having a gun taken from you isn't the same as having an Iphone stolen. Guns are insturments of death.

http://www.policemag.com/channel/pa...louis-officer-disarmed-shot-with-own-gun.aspx

A St. Louis Police officer responding to a prowler call early Tuesday was disarmed during a physical struggle with the suspect, who shot the officer with his service weapon, reports the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

My rants have nothing to do with our ability to carry firearms to protect ourselves. It's about the manner in which we carry them. Spend sometime reading up on all the cops that are shot with there own guns. Think about it. Think about it some more. Consider you own physical capabilites. Just cause they say it's legal to open carry a firearm doesn't mean it's a good idea all the time.

I'm a proponent of common sense carry. Open carry where you need to. If you live, work and play in an urban area then from a strictly common sense standpoint there is little logical reason to open carry. If you venture into the woods, the outback or the bush then your method of carry will change.

If your want to open carry for the tingle feeling that's best done in the privacy of your own bathroom with the door locked if you have kids......

1. Crime can happen any time, any where. Yes, even Braum's Ice Cream and Dairy Fortress isn't impenetrable to attacks. My wife, the anti-gunner, has the same attitude as you. She mocks me when I arm myself (concealed, before your nipples explode) to run to the gas station or to Crest to do our weekly shopping. "Yeah, wouldn't want that soccer mom to go on a murderous rampage on the chip aisle!" As if there's some magical radius of guaranteed safety centered from my home. It's nothing more than illogical thinking.

2. There's a difference between cops and armed citizens. Cops intentionally put themselves in dangerous situations that heavily escalate the risk of being harmed, including by their own firearms. Me, however, I'm just trying to mind my own business and buy my damn groceries in peace. Statistics also prove that this just doesn't happen. While it's definitely possible, the odds appear to be extremely minimal.

3. Again with your immature trolling. Just like all of us tell the gun grabbers -- If you don't like guns, don't buy them. In your case, if you don't like OC, then don't OC. It's legal now, we have the right to do so. It passed for a reason and it works well in many other states. I agree that OC isn't for everybody, but neither is CC, but I leave that right of choice to the individual. They're within the law, it's their decision and their responsibility, and you have no authority to dictate who carries, how they carry, and where.

Edited to add to 2.

 

[twoguns?]

Originally Posted by yukonjack
Oh David, so young so much to learn. Crackhead decides to be a tough guy. Takes yourpartially printing,because you reached up and your shirt rode up gun, shots you, shots everyone else so he don't leave no witnesses. Bad deal. Likely to happen? Who knows? Depends on where you hang out. You said you went to Braums, tough crowd there. Cops are supposed to have weapons retention training, every year some will get there guns snatched away from them. Sometimes they die, others too. Having a gun taken from you isn't the same as having an Iphone stolen. Guns are insturments of death.
or a great defence
Every scenerio can be changed, doesnt mean its true

 

[piston10]

Thankfully there is statistical data to back up this claim, while there isn't for the opposing argument.

1. Crime can happen any time, any where. Yes, even Braum's Ice Cream and Dairy Fortress isn't impenetrable to attacks. My wife, the anti-gunner, has the same attitude as you. She mocks me when I arm myself (concealed, before your nipples explode) to run to the gas station or to Crest to do our weekly shopping. "Yeah, wouldn't want that soccer mom to go on a murderous rampage on the chip aisle!" As if there's some magical radius of guaranteed safety centered from my home. It's nothing more than illogical thinking.

2. There's a difference between cops and armed citizens. Cops intentionally put themselves in dangerous situations that heavily escalate the risk of being harmed, including by their own firearms. Me, however, I'm just trying to mind my own business and buy my damn groceries in peace. Statistics also prove that this just doesn't happen. While it's definitely possible, the odds appear to be extremely minimal.

3. Again with your immature trolling. Just like all of us tell the gun grabbers -- If you don't like guns, don't buy them. In your case, if you don't like OC, then don't OC. It's legal now, we have the right to do so. It passed for a reason and it works well in many other states. I agree that OC isn't for everybody, but neither is CC, but I leave that right of choice to the individual. They're within the law, it's their decision and their responsibility, and you have no authority to dictate who carries, how they carry, and where.

Edited to add to 2.

Very well said.

 

[okiebryan]

If any of the multitude of bad things the CC only crowd claims will happen to civilian OCers were in fact likely to happen, wouldn't you think it would have already happened? Just because OC is new to Oklahoma, doesn't mean that it's new everywhere. Many states have had OC practiced since before statehood.

But opencarry.org has looked for these instances. Looked hard. Found zero "first shot" scenarios, and a total of 2 gun grabs.

I studied this issue long and hard before I decided that OC was a good option for me (even went so far as to plan a vacation around seeing and experiencing OC, then OCing in my business for awhile), and then lobbied for a bill to open the door for legal OC in Oklahoma. Most of the anti OC people cannot say anything like that. They didn't do the research (or even read someone else's research), they are just reacting to what they instinctively think MIGHT happen. Reminds me of the Brady bunch and VPC thinking.

I train for the most likely threat first, and the least likely threat last. My most likely threats are 1) armed robbery at work and 2) aggressive panhandler that turns into a mugging. Open carry is quite effective against both threats. I'm not likely to get caught up in a Die Hard movie, where I'm guerrilla fighting against European terrorists.

 

[indi]

If one is OC, the other party will be aware of the weapon and if there are no other witnesses it would be easy to claim that the weapon was drawn and pointed at him.

Shoot'em when he reaches for his cell phone, tell the cops you thought he was reaching for his gun, and you feared great bodily harm, maybe even death............ seriously this is a JOKE....... dont take this advice.

 

[oklaccer]

There are some folks that offer training(actual LEO's, Military, and so on) that consider OC to be detrimental to your safety.
OC gives up your tactial advantage by the bad guy knowing who has a weapon.
We can work this scenerio a dozen different ways, but the actual court cases might be a good way to start.
I suspect there aren't many? Perhaps some of our members that are versed in looking up legal stuff might help?

I added the emphasis - OC gives you a strategic advantage by the BG knowing you have a weapon, all but the most extremely stupid BG will go elsewhere, so no tactical advantage needed. Tactics is what you put into play when "the fight is on", so the way I see it, the tactical advantage will go to OC, because it is slightly faster draw and presentation of your weapon if you don't have to "uncover". So the real question is this; Do you want to have the BG go elsewhere, or surprise him after he has started to act?

 

[oklaccer]

Although it is rare, humans sometimes find themselves in confrontations that do not rise to a need for self defense. Never the less, the parties can become very angry and vengeful.

If one is OC, the other party will be aware of the weapon and if there are no other witnesses it would be easy to claim that the weapon was drawn and pointed at him.

It would be your word against his, and there would be no question that a gun was present.

Just something to think about.

That is what voice recorders are for. It won't have video, but you would be able to tell from the audio what was happening.

 

[berettaman]

There are some folks that offer training(actual LEO's, Military, and so on) that consider OC to be detrimental to your safety.
OC gives up your tactial advantage by the bad guy knowing who has a weapon.
We can work this scenerio a dozen different ways, but the actual court cases might be a good way to start.
I suspect there aren't many? Perhaps some of our members that are versed in looking up legal stuff might help?

Yeah they've all recieved their PHD's in tacticallity from the same mall ninja class.

 

[twoguns?]

I'll only open carry in the woods but I have no problem with those that want to, even if they want to carry a CCW badge. It's their right. It's the law. If you want to, okay. If not, okay. I don't know how something the OP stated would play out. Court cases will eventually tell. I'm just getting tired of the whole back and forth BS, especially that it is the right of anyone to carry in a store which posts against it. The property owners have the right to not allow it. Remember, No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service. There is no doubt many of the gun buster signs recently posted are in response to the law passing. It's getting sort of tiresome that this much back and forth is on OSA. There are a world of other gun-related topics and issues to address. I know someone will say that I don't have to spend my time here but you should also know I spend a whole lot less time than I used to. There are lots of other good forums out there.

And...theres stuff to do outside, with the Family, or friends.
Where there's No internet or cell phones....Ahh,The Good Ol' Days
LOL

 

[TwoForFlinching]

I was going to chime in from the standpoint of irony...

"The government is forcing (issue) down our throats, with these stupid laws..."

"I will force open carry on the public, regardless of public opinion, because it is a law and my right..."


Then I thought, nah... I'll let this one ride.