SUV Carrying 27 Crashes With Semi, Killing 15

[Rez Exelon]

That is exactly the point IMO. We are 35 YEARS down this deceitful road and no one really cares to solve the problem. The Democrats steadfastly refuse to overhaul our broken immigration system, simply because “kids in cages” and tragedies like the one we’re talking about make for good imagery in their war on Republicans. Fixing the problem is just not that difficult, but they refuse to do it. The entire subject has been twisted and misrepresented on purpose, and the only reason is corruption.

The coyote driving that Expedition is directly responsible for all those needless deaths, but he was just exploiting the human trafficking black market that was created by bad politics. Every politician who ever obstructed or obfuscated immigration reform owns part of this problem. Everyone who profits off the misery and death is complicit.



Mind the plank Sir, mind the plank. You’re in no position to make assumptions here Mr. Judgey McJudgerson.



LOL, you don’t answer questions at all! You’ve been asked numerous questions and you’ve stubbornly refused to answer them. Yet you persist in making judgements against others when they don’t come to heel when you ask your questions. That’s because you don’t ask questions in good faith. Sure we’re all here for amusement, but what skylines you is what amuses you, which is pretending you’re better than others and engineering the conversation to suit your perverse “amusement”.

You are the epitome of a troll and that’s why no one takes you seriously. Either change your “debate” style or expect to get dragged every time you set your dirty foot in these types of threads. We see you for what you really are, and now you’re going to serve as amusement for us. So buckle up, buttercup!

Come on man --- do you really think I care if anyone takes me seriously? This site is, and has always been, giggles for me. So if anything, I'm glad the "amusement" can go both ways. Then we're on the same level.

I'm not going to answer questions that are not as you say, "questions in good faith". Go through and stalk my posts if you haven't already. Most of my questions are asking for data, facts and support for a position. Most answers I get are deflection, personal attacks and projection. I don't care. It's giggles and amusement. There are some folks here that want to try to make it personal, which is their thing I suppose. It just shows their character, or lack thereof. You're a little different. IIRC when we met face to face I seemed to like you but man, you've turned snarky lately. Most people that seem to hate me or dislike me have never met me in real life.

 

[Glocktogo]

Come on man --- do you really think I care if anyone takes me seriously? This site is, and has always been, giggles for me. So if anything, I'm glad the "amusement" can go both ways. Then we're on the same level.

I'm not going to answer questions that are not as you say, "questions in good faith". Go through and stalk my posts if you haven't already. Most of my questions are asking for data, facts and support for a position. Most answers I get are deflection, personal attacks and projection. I don't care. It's giggles and amusement. There are some folks here that want to try to make it personal, which is their thing I suppose. It just shows their character, or lack thereof. You're a little different. IIRC when we met face to face I seemed to like you but man, you've turned snarky lately. Most people that seem to hate me or dislike me have never met me in real life.

Most people who meet me irl find me to be a pretty agreeable guy, because I go out of my way to be agreeable. It’s not really difficult because being nice doesn’t cost anything, unless the person you’re being nice to wants to take advantage of you. I don’t believe that happens very often, but maybe it’s because I don’t look and act like a mark?

On the internet we have discussions that don’t regularly happen FTF, unless you know that person really well. We feel comfortable opening up from behind a faceless screen, just like people will say what they feel about other drivers in the safety of their own car. The price for that comfort is being misconstrued.

I believe you assumed I lacked empathy or heart when I made my first post in this thread. You reacted viscerally to my mention of politics. Yet you know from past interactions that I’m not really that way. In fact I felt badly for the victims and everyone who had to process that scene. But politics is a precursor to that tragedy and I have no empathy for anyone pushing that brand of politics, Biden included. Sadly, the very victims of this tragedy were being exploited by people who profit from those same policies. That Biden sticker would be on the Expedition driven by the coyote, who now has 3-4 times as many people to profit off of, not the illegal immigrants he packed in there like sardines.

It’s not always “Immigrants Bad!” up in here. Not every American who’s destitute or homeless wants to go live in a crowded shack doing seasonal agricultural work for minimum wage. We need those migrant workers, who benefit from the mutually beneficial arrangement. What none of us need are cartels profiting off it now that illicit marijuana isn’t profitable anymore. We don’t need 26 illegal immigrants dangerously packed into an unsafe vehicle, trying to outpace the Border Patrol on OUR roadways. That could’ve just as easily been a family in a sedan they ran into as it was a gravel truck.

We can also tolerate more immigrants on permanent work visas that aren’t H-1B status. But it needs to be a tiered system working towards permanent resident or citizenship. But none of that can happen until we control our own borders. That was promised 35 years ago and Democrats have reneged on that promise for 35 years. This is nothing new in my line of thinking as I’ve stated it several times in other threads before.

You can’t separate politics from incidents like these, because politics creates the conditions for these incidents to occur. FWIW, I don’t want you to be absorbed into the hive mind, just don’t be quite so accusatory in your lines of questioning. And would it kill you to state what you think and why you think it once in a while? When you evade answering questions after asking them yourself, it makes you sound like a Democrat politician.

 

[Rez Exelon]

Most people who meet me irl find me to be a pretty agreeable guy, because I go out of my way to be agreeable. It’s not really difficult because being nice doesn’t cost anything, unless the person you’re being nice to wants to take advantage of you. I don’t believe that happens very often, but maybe it’s because I don’t look and act like a mark?

On the internet we have discussions that don’t regularly happen FTF, unless you know that person really well. We feel comfortable opening up from behind a faceless screen, just like people will say what they feel about other drivers in the safety of their own car. The price for that comfort is being misconstrued.

I believe you assumed I lacked empathy or heart when I made my first post in this thread. You reacted viscerally to my mention of politics. Yet you know from past interactions that I’m not really that way. In fact I felt badly for the victims and everyone who had to process that scene. But politics is a precursor to that tragedy and I have no empathy for anyone pushing that brand of politics, Biden included. Sadly, the very victims of this tragedy were being exploited by people who profit from those same policies. That Biden sticker would be on the Expedition driven by the coyote, who now has 3-4 times as many people to profit off of, not the illegal immigrants he packed in there like sardines.

It’s not always “Immigrants Bad!” up in here. Not every American who’s destitute or homeless wants to go live in a crowded shack doing seasonal agricultural work for minimum wage. We need those migrant workers, who benefit from the mutually beneficial arrangement. What none of us need are cartels profiting off it now that illicit marijuana isn’t profitable anymore. We don’t need 26 illegal immigrants dangerously packed into an unsafe vehicle, trying to outpace the Border Patrol on OUR roadways. That could’ve just as easily been a family in a sedan they ran into as it was a gravel truck.

We can also tolerate more immigrants on permanent work visas that aren’t H-1B status. But it needs to be a tiered system working towards permanent resident or citizenship. But none of that can happen until we control our own borders. That was promised 35 years ago and Democrats have reneged on that promise for 35 years. This is nothing new in my line of thinking as I’ve stated it several times in other threads before.

You can’t separate politics from incidents like these, because politics creates the conditions for these incidents to occur. FWIW, I don’t want you to be absorbed into the hive mind, just don’t be quite so accusatory in your lines of questioning. And would it kill you to state what you think and why you think it once in a while? When you evade answering questions after asking them yourself, it makes you sound like a Democrat politician.

I'd argue that it'd just make me a politician. But again, my policy is that I'm not going to answer questions that are not asked in good faith, in the same manner that apparently the rumor about me is that people think I ask all my questions in bad faith. I really don't mind getting proven wrong, but I don't consider myself proven wrong until there is an argument that is data-driven and supported. So I like to ask for numbers and sources --- preferably reputable ones.

Coming back to this thread, I don't know that I'd say my initial reaction was that you lacked empathy or heart. But it's very dangerous in my mind to immediately skip to a political viewpoint. That skips over the human tragedy and goes straight to politicizing it and the whole concept of "never let a good tragedy go to waste". If the SUV really had a Biden stick, a MAGA sticker, Peace sticker, no sticker --- there's still a human tragedy which should be IMHO a loss on it's own merits. AFTER THAT comes the time where there should be an honest discussion about how they got there, what lead to it, and what could be done to fix that. IMHO that the politics still doesn't factor into the lives of those people affected --- it'd only affect the question of how we got there and how we could fix it. So really, the concept of mentioning a sticker or affiliation just doesn't bring much value to the discussion.

 

[MacFromOK]

If the SUV really had a Biden stick, a MAGA sticker, Peace sticker, no sticker --- there's still a human tragedy which should be IMHO a loss on it's own merits.

I wholeheartedly agree. The loss of a friend or loved one is a tragedy to all involved, no matter where they're from, or what their affiliations may be.

Shame on us for trivializing such a horrible accident.

May they R.I.P.

 

[Glocktogo]

I'd argue that it'd just make me a politician. But again, my policy is that I'm not going to answer questions that are not asked in good faith, in the same manner that apparently the rumor about me is that people think I ask all my questions in bad faith. I really don't mind getting proven wrong, but I don't consider myself proven wrong until there is an argument that is data-driven and supported. So I like to ask for numbers and sources --- preferably reputable ones.

Coming back to this thread, I don't know that I'd say my initial reaction was that you lacked empathy or heart. But it's very dangerous in my mind to immediately skip to a political viewpoint. That skips over the human tragedy and goes straight to politicizing it and the whole concept of "never let a good tragedy go to waste". If the SUV really had a Biden stick, a MAGA sticker, Peace sticker, no sticker --- there's still a human tragedy which should be IMHO a loss on it's own merits. AFTER THAT comes the time where there should be an honest discussion about how they got there, what lead to it, and what could be done to fix that. IMHO that the politics still doesn't factor into the lives of those people affected --- it'd only affect the question of how we got there and how we could fix it. So really, the concept of mentioning a sticker or affiliation just doesn't bring much value to the discussion.

A tragedy is personal. Unfortunately 27 is a statistic, which is exactly what those people now are. Data driven people are often quick to dismiss anecdotal stories, yet statistics are just anecdotal incidents which have been catalogued.

What happened to those 27 people (28 including the truck driver) doesn’t affect us in the slightest. It affects our public discourse though, which is what we’re here discussing. In that discussion you’re going to have those who think they deserved what happened, those who don’t and those who examine the totality of the situation, rather than the emotional aspect.

If you’re really as data driven as you say, you’d see that, which is why I mentioned soapboxes on either side of the bed. It’s really easy to see a discussion and choose the side not yet taken so as to cast shade on the other participants. That’s not devil’s advocacy, it’s sport.

Likewise it’s kind of a dick move to always demand citations and sources. Many of us are voracious consumers of information. We hoover it up from wherever and whenever we can get it. That doesn’t mean we all walk around with a cross-referenced index of writings and links to populate on your demand of “data driven, supported” evidence.

When I hit you with all those links in post #14, I was on a laptop and had very recently been examining the statistical spikes in illegal immigration, and who was saying what about it from a policy standpoint. If I’d been on a mobile device using data? You’d have gotten nothing. Not because I didn’t want to support my argument, but because ain’t nobody got time for that.

So sorry to say but a lot of times your questions do come off as aggressive and *******. If you aren’t invested in the debate enough to go look it up yourself, then you’re asking others for answers that you don’t really value enough to be serious about them. That’s why you often switch to another line of questioning as soon as you get what you asked for. Whether your bias was preconceived against the information or you’re singularly focused on your position becomes irrelevant. People think “why did I bother?”.

I gave you 5 links to support my reasoning and you dismissed it out of hand, because all you seemed to care about was your question itself, not my answer. The answer was “it’s irrelevant” because my line of reasoning was about cause and effect, not grading the emotional quotient of tragedies on a sliding political scale. You didn’t catch that fact because you didn’t see what I was saying as important to the discussion. You appeared to be too busy being an ask-hole and I wasn’t down for that at the moment.

And that in a nutshell is why people often dismiss your interlocution as not worth their time. Simply changing your style of Q&A might yield more positive results. But that’s just me so...

 

[Glocktogo]

I wholeheartedly agree. The loss of a friend or loved one is a tragedy to all involved, no matter where they're from, or what their affiliations may be.

Shame on us for trivializing such a horrible accident.

May they R.I.P.

Who’s trivializing it?

 

[MacFromOK]

Who’s trivializing it?

Seriously?

Pretty much the whole thread has been doing just that IMO.

 

[Oklahomabassin]

I can give you at least one, and there are likely many more, instances of what the "right" is doing. A friend of ours is into training Thoroughbred horses and they keep some stalls at Remington Park. One day, they decided to go down to someplace like The Jesus House and offer a day's work to some of the homeless. They were going to pay them $100 for a few hours of cleaning stalls. No one took them up on the offer. In fact, some stated something to the effect of "Why should we go do work when we can get all that we need for free and without having to work."

So, I guess the question should be, "What is the 'Left' doing to combat homelessness?" They certainly aren't being successful in places like Los Angeles and San Francisco. And, speaking of "left-coast" cities, how is Seattle and Portland, OR doing with the homeless?

Do they have any stalls that need cleaned out Friday? I will be in OKC to save lives and I am not afraid of manual labor.

 

[O4L]

I can give you at least one, and there are likely many more, instances of what the "right" is doing. A friend of ours is into training Thoroughbred horses and they keep some stalls at Remington Park. One day, they decided to go down to someplace like The Jesus House and offer a day's work to some of the homeless. They were going to pay them $100 for a few hours of cleaning stalls. No one took them up on the offer. In fact, some stated something to the effect of "Why should we go do work when we can get all that we need for free and without having to work."

So, I guess the question should be, "What is the 'Left' doing to combat homelessness?" They certainly aren't being successful in places like Los Angeles and San Francisco. And, speaking of "left-coast" cities, how is Seattle and Portland, OR doing with the homeless?

Do they have any stalls that need cleaned out Friday? I will be in OKC to save lives and I am not afraid of manual labor.

Heck yeah! I'll clean horse stalls a few hours for $100. Sign me up! I'm not homeless but I'm only a couple of paychecks away from it.

 

[Glocktogo]

Seriously?

Pretty much the whole thread has been doing just that IMO.

Just to make sure, I scanned through the previous 7 pages again.

Discounting the sidebars between Rez and three of us, we’ve covered pretty much everything from the tragedy of so many people being hurt or killed, the safety implications of an overloaded vehicle, the dangers of human trafficking and how poorly the political side of our country deals with it.

I think I see one post out of 78 that trivialized the situation, but ‘m not seeing things through your eyes so maybe I missed something?