That seems like it could imperil officers in the event that they get injured. Is there a different procedure in those cases?
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That seems like it could imperil officers in the event that they get injured. Is there a different procedure in those cases?
That would fall back on department policy and SWAT procedures.
This was a knock warrant according to the department. Regardless, the raid was conducted with a four year old child in residence. There were no exigent circumstances, this was a planned raid. With that in mind, there was no reason to risk endangering the child.
This is an example of flawed intel and/or command decision making. The focus should remain there until the investigation is complete. As you stated, someone's law enforcement career should depend on making correct decisions before utilizing such tactics.
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Where do you read that she was "barricaded" for "over 5 minutes"?
Even then... why would it matter if the wife was hiding for all of 5 minutes?
My understanding is that she telephoned 911 immediately upon seeing armed men outside and medical responders were on site 2 minutes after that.
I'd hardly refer a scared woman hiding with a young child "barricaded". Nonetheless, if your intent was to imply that her actions caused her husband to expire, you're wrong. She clearly stated that she was by his side pleading with LE to get medical help and he was still alive during that time.
So... either she's lying. Or those are true facts. I'm going on the assumption that they are true and using that and the emergency responder records of the timeframe as a basis for my question.
WHY did LE not allow medical responders in AT ALL according to reports and kept them at bay for 1 hour and 14 minutes only to announce over the radio at that time the man had died.
I'm not trying to fight with you penismighter, I just think my question is valid and deserves some logical and thoughtful discussion and explaination.
This is what puzzles me about how civilian law enforcement has selectively implemented military style tactics. You're operating on home soil where American citizens are present. You're following law enforcement procedures to secure a scene so as to not further endanger the lives of non-combatants. Why not require a medic to be on the SWAT team as most every military unit in a combat zone prefers to have? The medic could immediately perform lifesaving measures on a team member, or any civilian injured during the raid, while other sworn personnel complete the search and secure the scene. Our military doesn't wait till the battle is over to adminster first aid, why should our law enforcement while employing military style tactics?
If you can afford a SWAT team, can you afford to NOT have a medic? You'd think our citizens and brave LEO's would deserve better.
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I used the term "barricaded" very lightly, and did not intend on you thinking that I felt she was barricaded. However, It could easily be argued that someone hiding in a closet, putting her child in front of her to keep from being shot (which she states on the 911 call) and not coming out of the house for over 5 minutes, could be considered barricaded given the situation.
I'm not implying that her actions caused anything. I am simply stating that due to the circumstances, the medics would have not been able to immediately enter the house for the previously stated reasons.
This is what puzzles me about how civilian law enforcement has selectively implemented military style tactics. You're operating on home soil where American citizens are present. You're following law enforcement procedures to secure a scene so as to not further endanger the lives of non-combatants. Why not require a medic to be on the SWAT team as most every military unit in a combat zone prefers to have? The medic could immediately perform lifesaving measures on a team member, or any civilian injured during the raid, while other sworn personnel complete the search and secure the scene. Our military doesn't wait till the battle is over to adminster first aid, why should our law enforcement while employing military style tactics?
If you can afford a SWAT team, can you afford to NOT have a mmedic? You'd think our citizens and brave LEO's would deserve better.
I agree, but you know how that stuff goes.
As far as the medic treating the injured person while the rest continue the search, I guess that would just fall back on Policy and Procedure again.
Initially they LE/SWAT did not even know that she and the child were in the house.
According to LE knowledge before hand they thought she and the child would be gone.
this according to Forbes article about the raid.
According to LE knowledge before hand they thought she and the child would be gone.
this according to Forbes article about the raid.
Then perhaps you shouldn't use the term barricaded if you don't want me to think you meant barricaded.
Perhaps they couldn't enter "immediately". What about sometime prior to 1 hour and 14 minutes?
This whole story just puts a knot in my stomach, it kinda tear me up to think if police were to were to get a tip from some low-life criminal trying to save his own skin, what would go down here in my house under simular circumstances. I just don't think these kind of tactics should be used on American citizens unless some sort of immediate danger warrants it.
And what tactics should not be used on US citizens? Knock and annouce warrants, because that is what this was. It sounds like the wife saw one of the cover guys setting up on a window, she flipped and called here husband who had then hide and goes to get an AR. The entry team realizes what's goining on, breaches, meets husband with a rifle and responds appropriately. What tactic there should not have been used? Granted, that situation is speculation. Pretty much every post in this thread has been a knee jerk or speculation by people with no expierence in this matter, so I think my proposal of what happened should be taken with at least as much, if not more weight.
What other tactics do you not like? That they shot him in his house? Any patrol officer would have responded the same manner if they were trained correctly. Do you not like that they held medical for a little over an hour? Medical doest go into a hot, unsecured scene. Furthermore, I can pretty much promise you that with 60 COM hits with a 9mm subgun or 5.56, he was DRT. Even if the wife had to sit there while they secured her and did a secondary search he wouldn't have made if. When people get shot it isn't like the movies. Unless it's a shot to the brain/brain stem they don't die right away. Just because it took him a couple of minutes to actually expire while they did a secondary search, I'd bet 6 months pay he wouldn't make it if Dr House and Dougie Howser were workin him together. Some GSW's you can't fix. Out of that 60 hits, only one has to be the magic bullet.
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