Terminal Ballistics from the Morgue

[Razur]

So the guy who works in the morgue sees dead bodies killed with 9mm and 380? Cool, I don't see the need to continue past post 1.

 

[Go_Ordnance]

Even funnier is that since he works in a morgue, he is an authority on what works and what doesn't.

Seems to me that he would only be an authority on what works (or worked). Stuff that doesn't work usually isn't found in the morgue.

 

[dennishoddy]

OK...now you have me thinking twice before selling my .40's. I don't really love shooting them, so I went back to shooting 9mm and .45.

I've never shot a 357. Have always been told the 357 will blind and deafen the user. So even though it's a great round, I've been told that using it is counterproductive in any low light setting.

What do you think about CCW in 357? Too much?

Having shot lots of .357, I hate it for the mz blast. Even with muffs its deafening. A round that is just as fast is the .44 mag with a larger bullet. Its not a carry weapon, but its boom is much less than the Crack of the .357.

I read this report on KTOG several years ago and totally respect the guys opinion.
I also know that new ammo in 9mm and .380 have vastly improved their usefullness in SD.

 

[dennishoddy]

Even funnier is that since he works in a morgue, he is an authority on what works and what doesn't.

Seems to me that he would only be an authority on what works (or worked). Stuff that doesn't work usually isn't found in the morgue.

I think his point was that although he saw most bodies with multiple round from 9mil and .380, these are the weapons of choice for gang bangers. 99.9 of them buy the cheapest ammo they can find, and have limited range time.
Currently from what I'm hearing some of the drug cartel members coming up from Mexico, are very well trained.

 

[Go_Ordnance]

I think his point was that although he saw most bodies with multiple round from 9mil and .380, these are the weapons of choice for gang bangers. 99.9 of them buy the cheapest ammo they can find, and have limited range time.
Currently from what I'm hearing some of the drug cartel members coming up from Mexico, are very well trained.

I agree, and think he jumps to conclusions about effectiveness based on number of shots. He seemed to imply that 9mm, for example, is less effective. Could just be bangers emptying a mag (as you noted).

I just got a kick out of some of the phrases. Here's another one: "I've seen folks killed by a bb to the eye and others survive after being hit by several well-placed rounds with a 9mm."

Why would they take wounded people to the morgue?

 

[ldp4570]

I agree, and think he jumps to conclusions about effectiveness based on number of shots. He seemed to imply that 9mm, for example, is less effective. Could just be bangers emptying a mag (as you noted).

I just got a kick out of some of the phrases. Here's another one: "I've seen folks killed by a bb to the eye and others survive after being hit by several well-placed rounds with a 9mm."

Why would they take wounded people to the morgue?

Being from Ga. This gentleman is well known to me, and was an Atlanta city cop, before working as an ME. So some of his background on what works and doesn't is pulled from there. He was writing reports like these while I was still an LEO in Ga.

 

[ez bake]

Being from Ga. This gentleman is well known to me, and was an Atlanta city cop, before working as an ME. So some of his background on what works and doesn't is pulled from there. He was writing reports like these while I was still an LEO in Ga.

Sounds like a bunch of facts mixed with his old-school opinion and some left out info (to me).

I'd love to see what actual bullets were found in those multiple-hit 9mm and other mouse-gun caliber victims. I'd venture to guess ball ammo or cheaper FMJ rounds and most likely target-weight bullets in that ammo (like Dennis said - cheapest ammo the bad guys can find).

I'm not going to think twice about carrying 15rds of 9mm Speer Gold Dot in all of my carry guns after reading that. I seriously doubt that the multiple gunshot victims he's seen are high-end modern-technology self defense bullets.

We've taken jugs of water and put wooden sticks in them (didn't dress them up with clothes though - that's probably another good test) and shot them with Federal Hydra-Shoks, Speer Gold Dots, Corbon DPX, Corbon Powerball, Remington Golden Sabers, etc... and gotten some seriously confidence-building results.

A 12ga isn't a magic bad-guy stopper either. Several websites have shown that you still have to aim, you have to use the right ammo, and often times, having 00buck isn't always as effective as people assume - and Shot-placement is still pretty critical if you understand how a 12ga patterns (not nearly as wide as people assume when under 10yds in a typical self-defense situation).

Still a good article, but it would be better with less opinion and more missing info about some of the bullets found in the multiple gunshot victims.

Here's some more good reading:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

 

[ldp4570]

Sounds like a bunch of facts mixed with his old-school opinion and some left out info (to me).

I'd love to see what actual bullets were found in those multiple-hit 9mm and other mouse-gun caliber victims. I'd venture to guess ball ammo or cheaper FMJ rounds and most likely target-weight bullets in that ammo (like Dennis said - cheapest ammo the bad guys can find).

I'm not going to think twice about carrying 15rds of 9mm Speer Gold Dot in all of my carry guns after reading that. I seriously doubt that the multiple gunshot victims he's seen are high-end modern-technology self defense bullets.

We've taken jugs of water and put wooden sticks in them (didn't dress them up with clothes though - that's probably another good test) and shot them with Federal Hydra-Shoks, Speer Gold Dots, Corbon DPX, Corbon Powerball, Remington Golden Sabers, etc... and gotten some seriously confidence-building results.

A 12ga isn't a magic bad-guy stopper either. Several websites have shown that you still have to aim, you have to use the right ammo, and often times, having 00buck isn't always as effective as people assume - and Shot-placement is still pretty critical if you understand how a 12ga patterns (not nearly as wide as people assume when under 10yds in a typical self-defense situation).

Still a good article, but it would be better with less opinion and more missing info about some of the bullets found in the multiple gunshot victims.

Here's some more good reading:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

I agree, but I still thought most of the info is valid, and yes some is opionated. Your right that alot of the ammo used is probably what ever cheap stuff the BG's could get their hands on. As to the shotgun, you are correct, you have to aim, its not a room broom, and you have to place those shots where its going to do the most damage, as patterns at room distance is going to be small, most less than 5" in diameter. Of course this depends on just how big of a room your having to shoot across.
Soom of his info is also dated, ammunition companies have made great strides since alot of this was written, and like you EZ, I figure 15+ rounds of GoldDot 9MM in my P226 + a spare mag will take care of most anything that needs to be shot.

 

[jcbarlow]

I also don't see why it braggs on a 2" .357, when you have a 125gr. bullet going around 1250 FPS, when a 9mm 124gr +p load out of a 4" barrel can easily go around 1200 FPS, 5 or 6 shots vs 15+ shots, with nearly the same ballistics, really a no brainer for me. Definitely a good read though.

 

[permafrost]

OK, that settles it! All the latest super autos are going back in the vault. My 357 wheelgun comes out for home defense from now on. I've always enjoyed shooting it but it wasn't as cool as the latest uberguns! Thanks for the reminder.