Tom Cole on the confederate flag protest

[Glocktogo]

Better watch out. Al and Jesse will head this way. On the other hand, I'm glad TC showed some grit. It takes balls to voice his opinion on that silly flag in this state.

It also takes balls to swing from Obama's nutz in this state, but that's not something I approve of!

 

[sanjuro893]

I have seen more utter stupidity and flat hypocrisy over the confederate flag than anything else in recent history. Why is it this particular flag to some people can ONLY stand for hate and NO other reason, even when the person flying it tells you straight to your face that they're flying it for reasons other than hate? By that logic doesn't that mean that the rainbow flag the equality movement flies can ONLY mean God's promise to Noah never to flood the earth again? Or that the cross can ONLY be seen as a Roman method of execution? If somebody tells you that they fly the flag for heritage, or to stand against gov't overreach, or just because they think it's PRETTY, why don't some of you believe them? Are they ALL closet racists? (Even the black ones) Where do people get the arrogance to decide to tell somebody else what THEIR symbols, be they crosses, flags, pentagrams, swastikas, rainbows, etc. mean? The VAST VAST majority of people who are upset about that flag are the very same people who tell you "if you don't like watching smut on TV, CHANGE THE CHANNEL" or "If you don't like abortions, DON'T GET ONE!" Here's a novel concept: if you don't like the confederate flag, DON'T FLY ONE! I've seen the same people who claim that morality is relative and "we define our own reality", or tell people not to judge or shame others speak in nothing but moral absolutes about people who fly the confederate flag. I don't know about you, but hypocrisy and intelligence don't really meld together well in my eyes. If you don't like something, you think certain people are stupid, fine, don't join 'em, but for God's sake don't be so stupidly arrogant and/or ignorant to presume YOU know what lies in other people's hearts cuz that makes YOU a bigger fool than anybody flying a flag.

 

[donner]

I have seen more utter stupidity and flat hypocrisy over the confederate flag than anything else in recent history. Why is it this particular flag to some people can ONLY stand for hate and NO other reason, even when the person flying it tells you straight to your face that they're flying it for reasons other than hate? By that logic doesn't that mean that the rainbow flag the equality movement flies can ONLY mean God's promise to Noah never to flood the earth again? Or that the cross can ONLY be seen as a Roman method of execution? If somebody tells you that they fly the flag for heritage, or to stand against gov't overreach, or just because they think it's PRETTY, why don't some of you believe them? Are they ALL closet racists? (Even the black ones) Where do people get the arrogance to decide to tell somebody else what THEIR symbols, be they crosses, flags, pentagrams, swastikas, rainbows, etc. mean? The VAST VAST majority of people who are upset about that flag are the very same people who tell you "if you don't like watching smut on TV, CHANGE THE CHANNEL" or "If you don't like abortions, DON'T GET ONE!" Here's a novel concept: if you don't like the confederate flag, DON'T FLY ONE! I've seen the same people who claim that morality is relative and "we define our own reality", or tell people not to judge or shame others speak in nothing but moral absolutes about people who fly the confederate flag. I don't know about you, but hypocrisy and intelligence don't really meld together well in my eyes. If you don't like something, you think certain people are stupid, fine, don't join 'em, but for God's sake don't be so stupidly arrogant and/or ignorant to presume YOU know what lies in other people's hearts cuz that makes YOU a bigger fool than anybody flying a flag.

while i think you make some good points, i'll just say that there is a difference between advocating for removing the flag from public spaces/symbols and banning the image from private use.

For example, the MS state flag still has the stars and bars on it. Now, you can talk about heritage all you want, but part of that heritage IS a history of slavery, treachery and oppression. Also, the use of the battle flag wasn't something important enough to adopt during or after the civil war, but instead in reaction to the civil rights era.

The football coach for Ole Miss, home of a riot to fight integration in 1962, talked the other day how the state flag hurts out of state recruitment. The sentiment you mention cuts both ways. Yes, the flag can mean a lot of things to a wide range of people, but part of that meaning IS racism (both current and historic).

so again, i'm just pointing out that there differences between an individual presenting the flag and those who disagree with the state displaying the flag in a manner that goes beyond certain uses.

 

[sanjuro893]

while i think you make some good points, i'll just say that there is a difference between advocating for removing the flag from public spaces/symbols and banning the image from private use.

For example, the MS state flag still has the stars and bars on it. Now, you can talk about heritage all you want, but part of that heritage IS a history of slavery, treachery and oppression. Also, the use of the battle flag wasn't something important enough to adopt during or after the civil war, but instead in reaction to the civil rights era.

The football coach for Ole Miss, home of a riot to fight integration in 1962, talked the other day how the state flag hurts out of state recruitment. The sentiment you mention cuts both ways. Yes, the flag can mean a lot of things to a wide range of people, but part of that meaning IS racism (both current and historic).

so again, i'm just pointing out that there differences between an individual presenting the flag and those who disagree with the state displaying the flag in a manner that goes beyond certain uses.

I get that. But we're no longer talking about the flag just flying over public buildings, we're talking about waving the flag in public at the president to show defiance to him and other public figures. (That's what they claim anyway, and I have no reason to doubt what they claim til they give me one) But according to some, it just CAN'T be about that, it simply CAN'T. It will ALWAYS be about skin color, hate, etc. Period. End of discussion. The science is settled. Case closed. Any further debate means you're a knuckle-dragging, redneck, neanderthal......
I love history and I'm fully aware of what took place under that flag both in the civil war and in the civil rights era and the terrible things that happened back then. Those atrocities have been admitted, apologized for and reconciliation sought time and time and time again, ESPECIALLY by the people who are currently out there flying the flag! Seems to me that if we ARE to move past the racist history of the flag and heal divisions, the flag NEEDS to have new meaning. To allow other symbols in our culture to be malleable and change along with changing times but not allow this symbol to do the same tells me that the people that are truly "stuck in the past" or "can't let it go" are the ones still screaming "RACIST!" at the sight of the flag, regardless if it's on a Dukes of Hazzard toy or flying over a state capitol, or at Obama's convoy. And I think it's completely hypocritical.

 

[Glocktogo]

Trying to bring common sense and logic to a purely emotional debate is like trying to bring fire to fish underwater. Not. Gonna.. Work...