So, maybe the rules really ain't the rules after all?
I agree with John that if we take on the role of SDA instructor we owe all of our students our due dilligence.
I tell all my students that my classes can last up to 8 hours. It really depends on how many students are in the class and how fast we get through the required curriculum. If we get through all the material in 4 hours, they pass the test, I watch them shoot, I let them go.
I personally think there is no need to keep people for 8 hours, just to beat a dead horse. I also personally think the SDA class should not be compulsory, 2A and all, but until its not its our duty as SDA instructors to enlighten people as much as possible about the Self-defense Act who pay for our services to the best of our abilities.
Some classes are smoother than others. Ive honestly had to strain to make some last 5 hours and others I could not finish in 8.
IMHO, the shooting portion shouldnt be required, like Utah. Utah doesnt seem to have any big issues of people making carry mistakes.
The shooting portion is NOT a tactical training session. We watch them shoot 50 rounds to deem them safe. Honestly for what it really is you could watch someone operate a CO2 pellet gun and tell if they have safe gun handling skills. ALOT of people take my class with .22s, I even provide the use of mine free of charge, yet at the same time I highly advise people to NOT decide on a .22 for their deadly force tool. The law says they must shoot fifty rounds with a pistol of the type (D,R,S) they want to carry. Caliber is not mentioned.
Wouldnt it be great of there were no license requirements and all law-abiding citizens could just carry if they wanted?
I tell all my students that my classes can last up to 8 hours. It really depends on how many students are in the class and how fast we get through the required curriculum. If we get through all the material in 4 hours, they pass the test, I watch them shoot, I let them go.
I personally think there is no need to keep people for 8 hours, just to beat a dead horse. I also personally think the SDA class should not be compulsory, 2A and all, but until its not its our duty as SDA instructors to enlighten people as much as possible about the Self-defense Act who pay for our services to the best of our abilities.
Some classes are smoother than others. Ive honestly had to strain to make some last 5 hours and others I could not finish in 8.
IMHO, the shooting portion shouldnt be required, like Utah. Utah doesnt seem to have any big issues of people making carry mistakes.
The shooting portion is NOT a tactical training session. We watch them shoot 50 rounds to deem them safe. Honestly for what it really is you could watch someone operate a CO2 pellet gun and tell if they have safe gun handling skills. ALOT of people take my class with .22s, I even provide the use of mine free of charge, yet at the same time I highly advise people to NOT decide on a .22 for their deadly force tool. The law says they must shoot fifty rounds with a pistol of the type (D,R,S) they want to carry. Caliber is not mentioned.
Wouldnt it be great of there were no license requirements and all law-abiding citizens could just carry if they wanted?
Last edited:
Like a very few SDA instructors, I have been active since this thing first began. I've been a resource for other instructors, from time to time. The legal portion has changed a number of times during this period. The safety and firearms handling/live fire portion is essentially the same it always has been.
The intent of the legislature with the SDA Act was to provide students a good knowledge of applicable law, as well as sufficient firearms skill to be safe among the state's general population.
People learn at different speeds; some a little faster than others. A class's speed is limited by the comprehension and skills exhibited by its slowest member. Each member of the class MUST grasp the critical portion of the laws. Each member of the class MUST master safe handling, loading/unloading, firing procedures for various handguns.
When I'm finished with a class, the students know about ALL the applicable laws. They know which they had likely better memorize. They know how to handle/fire all 3 pistol types. They have handled both revolvers and semi's in class with dummy ammo. They learn proper firing methods, which for many is a huge improvement over what they thought they knew. They know how to keep current with the law, as it changes. They know how to fill out and complete their application.
Occasionally I have a student who doesn't have it all together with the firearms portion. I bring them back out for a two hour session, no charge. This is rarely necessary, but I do it rather than turn someone not ready loose or fail them for the class. I would fail a student, passing written safety test or not, if they were not sufficiently firearms proficient to be out among the general population.
I find that it will take very nearly 8 hr of actual instructional time, excluding breaks and lunch, to meet this goal. If the "light" hasn't gone on behind the eyes, of each and every student, the instructor has failed. Personally I do not see how it would be possible to effectively and FULLY instruct in the 4 hour time frame mentioned.
The intent of the legislature with the SDA Act was to provide students a good knowledge of applicable law, as well as sufficient firearms skill to be safe among the state's general population.
People learn at different speeds; some a little faster than others. A class's speed is limited by the comprehension and skills exhibited by its slowest member. Each member of the class MUST grasp the critical portion of the laws. Each member of the class MUST master safe handling, loading/unloading, firing procedures for various handguns.
When I'm finished with a class, the students know about ALL the applicable laws. They know which they had likely better memorize. They know how to handle/fire all 3 pistol types. They have handled both revolvers and semi's in class with dummy ammo. They learn proper firing methods, which for many is a huge improvement over what they thought they knew. They know how to keep current with the law, as it changes. They know how to fill out and complete their application.
Occasionally I have a student who doesn't have it all together with the firearms portion. I bring them back out for a two hour session, no charge. This is rarely necessary, but I do it rather than turn someone not ready loose or fail them for the class. I would fail a student, passing written safety test or not, if they were not sufficiently firearms proficient to be out among the general population.
I find that it will take very nearly 8 hr of actual instructional time, excluding breaks and lunch, to meet this goal. If the "light" hasn't gone on behind the eyes, of each and every student, the instructor has failed. Personally I do not see how it would be possible to effectively and FULLY instruct in the 4 hour time frame mentioned.
I dont know what the Groupon instructor means by 4 hours but when I say 4 hours is possible, I mean the law portion only.
Of course that depends on like you say, the comprehension of the slowest grasping students.
Mine was about 6 hours. It was a full 4 hours classroom time, but since there were only 10-12 people in the class, and nearly all were familiar with handguns, it didn't take long to go through the range session.
He did what buzzdraw mentioned with the one lady who was NOT capable / safe with her gun: he offered to let her come back to train 1 on 1 before he passed her.
He did what buzzdraw mentioned with the one lady who was NOT capable / safe with her gun: he offered to let her come back to train 1 on 1 before he passed her.
Just a thought, Has anyone asked this instructor? Maybe I missed it somewhere, but has anyone went by the place or called to get clarification? Also is the SDA class 8 hours or up to 8 hours?
There is quite a bit of material to cover, if the instructor complies with CLEET's curriculum as well as meets requirements set by the various Statutes. IMO the student must be given a strong opportunity to LEARN the material, which may take more skill on the part of the instructor, past that of just reading printed material to the class.
21 O.S. 1290.14 E.
The required firearms safety and training course and the actual demonstration of competency and qualification required of the applicant shall be designed and conducted in such a manner that the course can be reasonably completed by the applicant within an eight-hour period. CLEET shall establish the course content and promulgate rules, procedures and forms necessary to implement the provisions of this subsection. For the training and qualification course, an applicant may be charged a fee not to exceed Sixty Dollars ($60.00). The instructor to student ratio shall not exceed ten students to any one instructor. CLEET may establish criteria for assistant instructors, maximum class size and any other requirements deemed necessary to conduct a safe and effective training and qualification course. The course content shall include a safety inspection of the firearm to be used by the applicant in the training course; instruction on pistol handling, safety and storage; dynamics of ammunition and firing; methods or positions for firing a pistol; information about the criminal provisions of the Oklahoma law relating to firearms; the requirements of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act as it relates to the applicant; self-defense and the use of appropriate force; a practice shooting session; and a familiarization course. The firearms instructor shall refuse to train or qualify any person when the pistol to be used or carried by the person is either deemed unsafe or unfit for firing or is a weapon not authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act. The course shall provide an opportunity for the applicant to qualify himself or herself on either a derringer, a revolver, a semiautomatic pistol or any combination of a derringer, a revolver and a semiautomatic pistol, provided no pistol shall be capable of firing larger than .45 caliber ammunition. Any applicant who successfully trains and qualifies himself or herself with a semiautomatic pistol may be approved by the firearms instructor on the training certificate for a semiautomatic pistol, a revolver and a derringer upon request of the applicant. Any person who qualifies on a derringer or revolver shall not be eligible for a semiautomatic rating until the person has demonstrated competence and qualifications on a semiautomatic pistol. Upon successful completion of the training and qualification course, a certificate shall be issued to each applicant who successfully completes the course. The certificate of training shall comply with the form established by CLEET and shall be submitted with an application for a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Section 1290.12 of this title.
I shopped around Tusla for the class I took...I did talk to one instructor who told me that he cuts out all of the breaks and regularly gets the class finished in 4 hours. I opted for a class at 2A that lasted a full 8 hours around 90 minutes or so was range time. While we probably could have rushed through everything and gotten finished earlier, we actually had a lot of good scenario discussions and I did not feel like the class dragged on at all.
