what about bringing a gun to a fistfight??

[Travis798]

And. Say you do get punched,and you are stupid enough to punch back,and in some freakish incident you either kill the guy in one punch or he hits his head on the sidewalk after you punch him and he dies. That was not self defense. You just killed someone. That may have been an accident,but you were fighting. Which is an illegal activity. You might now be defending yourself from a manslaughter charge. You used more force to defend your self than what was presented to you. You negated a self defense defense unless you can prove that you were retreating or had no other choice but to react. You still may go to jail,be getting a lawyer,missing work,and have to defend your self in court. A hell of a lot of trouble when you could have just walked away.

I don't agree with this at all. If you get punched, and punch back, you are acting in self defense and are only using like force. There is no duty to retreat in Oklahoma.

I think what the OP is asking, is in that rare time that you are unable to back down, trying to fight with a gun on your person is very unsafe. You won't find an officer trying to fist fight an aggressor because it may give him access to your weapon. A lot of Officers have non lethal alternatives, that we as civilians do not carry.

Personally, I would try to walk away. If I am pursued and it escalates into physical contact, at that point I believe I am well within my rights to withdraw my weapon. You never know who is all drugged up and feeling no pain, and I'm not taking a chance of having some drugged out guy shoot me with my own weapon.

As long as you truly tried to diffuse the situation, and honestly felt you were left with no other option, I don't think many officers would try to take it much further, and if they did, I personally would not convict if I were on a jury.

 

[M_Ridgeway]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_(theory)

Heres an idea for these wannabe badboys. Take it to the gym. Invite the guy to the gym to put the gloves on and do it in a controlled manner- after everyone has calmed down. Most people will just shut up and go away. Unless you just challenged a boxer or a fighter. Well,then be prepared for a beating,with gloves on it wont hurt as bad though,and you may learn a few moves in the process. And everyone is alive and no one went to jail.

thats just a ridiculous solution to an immature problem.
if a guy keeps it going i dont need to talk. just smash him where he stands and then leave. i dont look for trouble but if someone has a problem with me i dont need to leave or if i got a problem and look for someone i dont find them and invite them to the gym.

but yea if you get caught in legalities. the guy that wins usually gets stuck with most of blame. esp if you strike while the are retreating or down or not fighting back.

 

[Roadking Larry]

I'd Like to hear from the Local LEOs on Noferafactors post. You can find more than a few stories in the Tulsa World archives about one punch resulting in the death of the person being punched.
When physically assaulted the last thing I'm going to do is curl up in a ball and take a beating or turn my back on someone who has already attacked me.

 

[BryanDP]

The only you fight you win is the one you avoid. I'm proud to say I've won every fight that I've ever been in.

Frankly if you have a girl that doesn't do her part to avoid unwanted "attention" from other guys you've got a problem your girl. If she's into you as she should be during the dating phase there shouldn't even be an opening for another guy to talk to her. If she allows the opening and the guy engages her, let him have her.

Bryan

 

[h8ns8n]

I think what the OP is asking, is in that rare time that you are unable to back down, trying to fight with a gun on your person is very unsafe. You won't find an officer trying to fist fight an aggressor because it may give him access to your weapon. A lot of Officers have non lethal alternatives, that we as civilians do not carry.

Personally, I would try to walk away. If I am pursued and it escalates into physical contact, at that point I believe I am well within my rights to withdraw my weapon. You never know who is all drugged up and feeling no pain, and I'm not taking a chance of having some drugged out guy shoot me with my own weapon.

As long as you truly tried to diffuse the situation, and honestly felt you were left with no other option, I don't think many officers would try to take it much further, and if they did, I personally would not convict if I were on a jury.

finally someone gets my scenario and offers ideas. Thanks

I'd Like to hear from the Local LEOs on Noferafactors post. You can find more than a few stories in the Tulsa World archives about one punch resulting in the death of the person being punched.
When physically assaulted the last thing I'm going to do is curl up in a ball and take a beating or turn my back on someone who has already attacked me.

I agree!
I have been cuffed and stuffed for "fighting" and I know that there is a difference in that and "self defense"

The only you fight you win is the one you avoid. I'm proud to say I've won every fight that I've ever been in.

Frankly if you have a girl that doesn't do her part to avoid unwanted "attention" from other guys you've got a problem your girl. If she's into you as she should be during the dating phase there shouldn't even be an opening for another guy to talk to her. If she allows the opening and the guy engages her, let him have her.

Bryan

again my scenario is about the unavoidable..by the standards in many of the replies there is no reason for any of us to carry a weapon, we should just walk away. But the reality is that there ARE many violent people out there and not all of them carry a knife or a gun but that doesnt make their aggression simply avoidable.
And BTW this was a made up scenario.. I am married and my wife would never bring the actions of the kind of idiot I am talking about on herself
(I am not talking about showing out or being macho). again by this post then all women that are raped asked for it.

I sure do hear the word "assault" alot for you guys to imagine that it never happens.

 

[TerryP]

h8ns8n, you have asked a question that most ccw holders have failed to ever even consider.
This event is as likely to happen to you as a open and shut shooting scenario is. Happened at riverparks not so long ago if you recall.
You may need to explore your less than lethal options and work some of them into your program.
I personally do not want to go hands on with anybody on the street. That can get out of hand or over your head too quick.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

Frankly if you have a girl that doesn't do her part to avoid unwanted "attention" from other guys you've got a problem your girl. If she's into you as she should be during the dating phase there shouldn't even be an opening for another guy to talk to her. If she allows the opening and the guy engages her, let him have her.

Bryan

WHAT?

 

[doctorjj]

I don't mean to come off like a prick, but you keep saying the scenario was unavoidable, but in your initial post you said this:

but I don't see that asking your girl to hold your gun is the best or legal thing to do. That could easily be called brandishing and if the force used is not deadly then skinnin your smoke wagon would be illegal as well.

That doesn't sound unavoidable at all to me. And it doesn't even sound like self defense. It sounds like a good old fashioned bar fight. If you had time to take your gun off and give it to your girl, then you had plenty of opportunity to back down and just walk away. What you described was a conscious decision to engage in a fight.
I am from a small town, but lived in Norman for 5 years, OKC for 4 years, Tulsa for 1 year and St. Louis for 5 years. I've been around. I've been in a few fights. Some I started, some I didn't. In retrospect, I think all of them could have been avoided. All that being said, I do know that some fights are unavoidable. However, if you wanted to talk about the unavoidable, your initial post certainly didn't imply that.

 

[doctorjj]

Oh also, sort of off topic, but maybe it applies. For a short while back in college, I was, technically, a licensed professional boxer in the state of Oklahoma. I had a lawyer friend tell me that I could be in some serious trouble if I got into a fight, because I could possibly be charged with assault with a deadly weapon (my fists). I'm not saying I'm some sort of Mike Tyson or anything. I don't even know if I really hit that hard, but from what I understand, the legal point was still the same. If that were true, I suppose using your weapon on an attacker, whether or not he had a knife or gun, could be justified. I don't think anyone would be convinced if you are 6' 4" and go 240 and the attacker is 5' 6" and weighs a buck o five, but in some cases I think you could make a reasonable defense of your actions based on the fact that you were scared for your life. Any lawyers want to weigh in???

 

[Saur]

I had a lawyer friend tell me that I could be in some serious trouble if I got into a fight, because I could possibly be charged with assault with a deadly weapon (my fists). I'm not saying I'm some sort of Mike Tyson or anything. I don't even know if I really hit that hard, but from what I understand, the legal point was still the same.

Yeah, whats up with that anyway? I heard someone say the same thing the other day and I remember scenes from movies way back when where folks would say "but i have to warn you, my hands are considered lethal weapons!"