Yeah, I forsee some velocity loss in that long of a barrel. Optimal length on 30.06 is 24" This gives you the best velocity and sight picture.
Yeah, I forsee some velocity loss in that long of a barrel. Optimal length on 30.06 is 24" This gives you the best velocity and sight picture.
I think he said he's leaning toward a .220 Swift, in a heavy gun config, mainly for coyotes.
And a bullet from a centerfire like a .30-06 does not start slowing down until about 50-60" of barrel, IIRC. It keeps gaining velocity until then. Very different from a .22lr rimfire, which will begin slowing down anywhere from 14" or so for a subsonic/CB, up to around 21" or more, depending upon ammo type. But anything past 30" or so, the barrel has to get REALLY thick to retain enough rigidity to maintain top accuracy capability. Savage's 12 F Class PTR in 6 BR and 6.5-284 have 30" bbls, for example, and they are around 1.5" thick - just huge tree limbs. You can go thinner with a 26" bbl and still maintain enough rigidity. *That* is the reason (along with accompanying general loss of handiness/manueverability) that you normally don't see longer than 26" bbls, and almost never see longer than 28 or 30 inchers - not because of velocity loss. It's about rigidity/accuracy, and necessary barrel thickness to achieve that, with the attendant loss of lightness & handiness (but true enough, this is a complicated calculus, where this loss of handiness - and increase in manufacturing cost and thus price - is weighed against the ever-increasing, yet diminishing marginal returns in vel gain). You also have to look at the range at which you want your rifle to specialize in, and just *how* good of accuracy you want. You only need tip-top rigidity if you want benchrest-class accuracy, meausured in 10ths of MOAs, rather than quarters of MOAs. Most of us don't need that. Couple that fact with the fact that at really long ranges, say at 600 to 1000 yards or more, the effect of the (unknown speed & direction) wind drift effect from the intervening winds between you and the target becomes more important to actual practical accuracy than the amount by which extra rigidity can contribute to accuracy due to pure mechanical accuracy resulting from uniform bbl harmonics (which improve with rigidity) - as a result, it makes sense to have a really long barrel'ed gun for 1K matches and such (28-30" or more), even at the expense of a bit of loss of rididity/mechanical accuracy - because the improved velocity overcomes wind drift by a greater amount than the lost mechanical accuracy, - that is, provided you don't mind the extra weight and loss of handiness that comes from the longer barrel - even barrels that aren't really thick are still really heavy at 30" or more! Still, the thicker, the better in the long boys - provided that it still 'makes weight' for the competition you're engaging in, if any.
Hope that helps some.
Don't forget - most 300 yard benchrest competitors use 20" bbls, and the Houston warehouse experiments (at 600 yards IIRC) with *no wind*, showed that *in a sporter weight (light) barrel*, a 21.75" barrel is the optimum length for maximum accuracy. But with a thicker barrel, you can go longer (assuming equal bbl quality of course).
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/October05.htm
For MOST .30-06 rifles' "missions", if you will, the optimum barrel length is 24". But going longer will continue to increase vels for a long, long ways (albeit at a rate of diminishing returns). Obviously, powder choice and bullet choice are important considerations to get the most out of a really long barrel like that, to minimize the diminishment of the diminishing returns, if that makes sense. A boattail and/or 'cannelured' bullet with less bore surface area contact will have less friction as it goes along, and maximize the gains achieved with a long barrel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-433262.html
I suspect that an overbore, small caliber centerfire such as .220 swift would go even longer before slowing down than .30-06 - probably around 60" (again, if I recall correctly - looking for that data right now....). So you'll need to pick somewhere between 28" and 60" I suppose (leaves you quite a bit of leeway there
) - I would suggest leaning toward 30" as a maximum before handiness is greatly impaired, and preferably less than that - in fact, since you said coyote gun, that means you might drag it to the field, which to ME, means an absolute maximum of twenty-SIX, not 28 or 30". 26" would be your best compromise between a field gun and a bench gun - i.e. for a "dual-purpose" coyote/range rifle, in .220 Swift. A 26" bbl doesn't have to be too terribly thick to get good ridigity/accuracy - a standard 'heavy' barrel will do (as opposed to a super-heavy 'bull' or more).
And a bullet from a centerfire like a .30-06 does not start slowing down until about 50-60" of barrel, IIRC. It keeps gaining velocity until then. Very different from a .22lr rimfire, which will begin slowing down anywhere from 14" or so for a subsonic/CB, up to around 21" or more, depending upon ammo type. But anything past 30" or so, the barrel has to get REALLY thick to retain enough rigidity to maintain top accuracy capability. Savage's 12 F Class PTR in 6 BR and 6.5-284 have 30" bbls, for example, and they are around 1.5" thick - just huge tree limbs. You can go thinner with a 26" bbl and still maintain enough rigidity. *That* is the reason (along with accompanying general loss of handiness/manueverability) that you normally don't see longer than 26" bbls, and almost never see longer than 28 or 30 inchers - not because of velocity loss. It's about rigidity/accuracy, and necessary barrel thickness to achieve that, with the attendant loss of lightness & handiness (but true enough, this is a complicated calculus, where this loss of handiness - and increase in manufacturing cost and thus price - is weighed against the ever-increasing, yet diminishing marginal returns in vel gain). You also have to look at the range at which you want your rifle to specialize in, and just *how* good of accuracy you want. You only need tip-top rigidity if you want benchrest-class accuracy, meausured in 10ths of MOAs, rather than quarters of MOAs. Most of us don't need that. Couple that fact with the fact that at really long ranges, say at 600 to 1000 yards or more, the effect of the (unknown speed & direction) wind drift effect from the intervening winds between you and the target becomes more important to actual practical accuracy than the amount by which extra rigidity can contribute to accuracy due to pure mechanical accuracy resulting from uniform bbl harmonics (which improve with rigidity) - as a result, it makes sense to have a really long barrel'ed gun for 1K matches and such (28-30" or more), even at the expense of a bit of loss of rididity/mechanical accuracy - because the improved velocity overcomes wind drift by a greater amount than the lost mechanical accuracy, - that is, provided you don't mind the extra weight and loss of handiness that comes from the longer barrel - even barrels that aren't really thick are still really heavy at 30" or more! Still, the thicker, the better in the long boys - provided that it still 'makes weight' for the competition you're engaging in, if any.
Hope that helps some.
Don't forget - most 300 yard benchrest competitors use 20" bbls, and the Houston warehouse experiments (at 600 yards IIRC) with *no wind*, showed that *in a sporter weight (light) barrel*, a 21.75" barrel is the optimum length for maximum accuracy. But with a thicker barrel, you can go longer (assuming equal bbl quality of course).
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/October05.htm
For MOST .30-06 rifles' "missions", if you will, the optimum barrel length is 24". But going longer will continue to increase vels for a long, long ways (albeit at a rate of diminishing returns). Obviously, powder choice and bullet choice are important considerations to get the most out of a really long barrel like that, to minimize the diminishment of the diminishing returns, if that makes sense. A boattail and/or 'cannelured' bullet with less bore surface area contact will have less friction as it goes along, and maximize the gains achieved with a long barrel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-433262.html
I suspect that an overbore, small caliber centerfire such as .220 swift would go even longer before slowing down than .30-06 - probably around 60" (again, if I recall correctly - looking for that data right now....). So you'll need to pick somewhere between 28" and 60" I suppose (leaves you quite a bit of leeway there
) - I would suggest leaning toward 30" as a maximum before handiness is greatly impaired, and preferably less than that - in fact, since you said coyote gun, that means you might drag it to the field, which to ME, means an absolute maximum of twenty-SIX, not 28 or 30". 26" would be your best compromise between a field gun and a bench gun - i.e. for a "dual-purpose" coyote/range rifle, in .220 Swift. A 26" bbl doesn't have to be too terribly thick to get good ridigity/accuracy - a standard 'heavy' barrel will do (as opposed to a super-heavy 'bull' or more).
How long and heavy of a bbl would it take before it starts to compromise the strength of the action? I know a .920 steel bbl on an Aluminum 10-22 action needs to be supported at the end of the stock. A 5 foot bbl on a savage action is alot of steel out front. I mean you are talking about a 7 foot OAL rifle. The coyotes will never have a chance.
Oh the yotes will have a REAL good chance, try to swing that long of a rifle on a yote 
a 26" tube is great for most applications but for a hunting rifle I'd look at a touch shorter tube for ease of swing and getting on your target. So what you have to figure is what is the intended purpose of this rifle? trick is just build 2! Later,
Kirk
a 26" tube is great for most applications but for a hunting rifle I'd look at a touch shorter tube for ease of swing and getting on your target. So what you have to figure is what is the intended purpose of this rifle? trick is just build 2! Later,Kirk
Excellent question, and I don't know the answer - but yeah, at some point, it could bend your action I guess....
But I agree with Ksmirk - get two rifles - a 22" field gun in .243 win with a light to light-medium contour for yotes, and a 28-30" heavy bench gun in .220 Swift for targets. But as I said, for a compromise combo gun, 26" is probably where it's at for you.
Yeah, I'd like to see the looks on some guys' faces at the range if I were to pull out a six foot long, 4" thick barreled rifle that wasn't a rail gun!
Would look like a punt gun but be twice as heavy, and a rifle not smoothbore.
One gun two. Barrels. I want to see what 06 can do from 30 inch barrel.
I will get. 220 Swift barrel later.
Why 30? Because I think it looks good. Like I said might get muzzle threaded and have another 30 inch one to screw
on like a suppressor
I will get. 220 Swift barrel later.
Why 30? Because I think it looks good. Like I said might get muzzle threaded and have another 30 inch one to screw
on like a suppressor
I am followed by black CIA helicopters a lot
57 inch is so yesterday we are thinking 57 FEET with gusset like German WW1 Railway super gun.
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