Who Defends Our Right to Free Speech?

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cjjtulsa

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Yep i do understand that. So why kill 4 people who had absolutely zero to do with the movie? Were those four men responsible for what some nimwit stateside did? Were they just convenient targets?

Why pull Reginald Denny from his truck and beat him half to death because some L.A. cops beat up on Rodney King? Irrational people do irrational things – and it ain’t just in other countries.
 

uncle money bags

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In most of those countries they have no idea what free speech rights are because they never had any.

To them, it's inconceivable that a film like that could be made without at least the approval, and at most the support, of our government.
You should know that.

They probably think the film is part of some big hollywood production that was financed by the government.

So your saying they are too ignorant to be able to understand that sometimes individuals do stuff with out tacit government/religious approval?

Just so I am clear though, I dont believe that the movie had crap to do with the killing of those men. I do think it has something to do with Muslims being upset and insulted. Having said that I think it is clear that most Muslims, even in Libya, understand that a violent reaction to the film is uncalled for and that certain groups are using it as an excuse to kill Americans. These extremists know that they will have more support for their actions if they can wag a finger at a movie and claim to be insulted.

Still, you did quote me, but you did not answer my questions.
 

uncle money bags

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Why pull Reginald Denny from his truck and beat him half to death because some L.A. cops beat up on Rodney King? Irrational people do irrational things – and it ain’t just in other countries.
Yes irrational people do stupid things, so do we curtail our rights as human beings based on that?
 

Hobbes

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So your saying they are too ignorant to be able to understand that sometimes individuals do stuff with out tacit government/religious approval?

Just so I am clear though, I dont believe that the movie had crap to do with the killing of those men. I do think it has something to do with Muslims being upset and insulted. Having said that I think it is clear that most Muslims, even in Libya, understand that a violent reaction to the film is uncalled for and that certain groups are using it as an excuse to kill Americans. These extremists know that they will have more support for their actions if they can wag a finger at a movie and claim to be insulted.

Still, you did quote me, but you did not answer my questions.
I answered it. You may not like the answer, but it's there.

I will agree that the masses are being used as puppets by the pupeteers but that's just as true here as it is there.
 

Lurker66

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Yep i do understand that. So why kill 4 people who had absolutely zero to do with the movie? Were those four men responsible for what some nimwit stateside did? Were they just convenient targets?

The 4 people who died are not responcible for what some nitwit said and were prolly NOT convenient targets as you imply.

However, if you really are as reasonable as you've said, you can understand that the nitwit who made the video bears responsibility for his actions, not matter what his intentions were.

Immanual Kant wrote a huge book called "The Critique of Pure Reason", in this book he explains that a person is responsible for their actions, whether that action is right or wrong.
 

uncle money bags

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I answered it. You may not like the answer, but it's there.

I will agree that the masses are being used as puppets by the pupeteers but that's just as true here as it is there.

My questions were...

So why kill 4 people who had absolutely zero to do with the movie?
Were those four men responsible for what some nimwit stateside did?
Were they just convenient targets?


Your answer was...

In most of those countries they have no idea what free speech rights are because they never had any.
To them, it's inconceivable that a film like that could be made without at least the approval, and at most the support, of our government.
You should know that.
They probably think the film is part of some big hollywood production that was financed by the government.

Its not about whether I like your answer or not, I may disagree with it or agree with it, but instead of having me read between the lines to infer what you are saying please be clear.
 

Lurker66

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I believe that we (all people) have certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is not just a matter of other countries. Freedom of speech is being discouraged right here. I understand not wanting to provoke zealots if we exercise free speech, but I also fear the long term effect on our liberty. It is a dilemma.

its really not a dilemma if you understand that your rights do not extend beyond our national borders. All rights are being discouraged and eroded, thats what laws do, they attempt to define a right but when that happens it diminishes the actual.
 

uncle money bags

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The 4 people who died are not responcible for what some nitwit said and were prolly NOT convenient targets as you imply.

However, if you really are as reasonable as you've said, you can understand that the nitwit who made the video bears responsibility for his actions, not matter what his intentions were.

Immanual Kant wrote a huge book called "The Critique of Pure Reason", in this book he explains that a person is responsible for their actions, whether that action is right or wrong.

I didnt imply that. If I imply something I will make a declarative statement. If you are interpreting my questions as sarcasm you are mistaken.

I do think the person who made the movie is responsible for upsetting/insulting Muslims, that is undeniable. I do not hold him responsible for killing those 4 Americans, that lays at the feet of the people who committed the act.
 

Dave70968

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Yelling allah is a pedophile in certain muslim countries is a killing offence. Their culture is different than ours. Reason and reasonableness is not universal. Each culture determines what is reasonable, surely, as a reasonable person, you understand that.
Surprisingly, this isn't such a country. Are you suggesting that those countries have the right to project their laws into our territory?

Bottom line, what this guy did is the equivalent of flipping you the bird and calling your mom a cut-rate front-loading cum dumpster. Vile, yes, but you still don't have the right to get all stabby, no matter how offended you might be, and you definitely don't have the right to go take it out on somebody who was uninvolved and half-a-world away at the time.
 

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