who's using 22-250 for deer?

[_CY_]

thanks for clarifying... this means out of four brass shown in OP.
.17 rem is only cartridge that will not be legal to shoot deer in OK.
no way I'd want to go after deer with .22 fireball.

aprox. case length: .223 = 1.79in ... 22-250 = 1.90in ... .22 fireball - 1.39in

top to bottom: 22-250, .223, .22 fireball
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From the Oklahoma regulations for deer hunting:

Rifles: Centerfire rifles firing at least a 55-grain weight soft-nosed or hollow-point bullet and having an overall cartridge case length of 1 1/4 inches or longer

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

By many accounts, .22-250 (or .220 swift) is a bit of a perplexing caliber for deer, in that 90% of the time, it works like the hammer of thor on either neck shots or broadside/quartering away vitals shots.

The problem comes on a quartering toward (shoulder meat), or even a (high) shoulder blade shot, where I've heard people report it blows up and doesn't penetrate. So it either works fantastically or not at all and results in a dead deer never found, or worse, wounds the animal.

So for ME, I think the .223 rem is around 10 times a better choice for deer than .22-250, because it will work just about as well on neck or standard vitals shots like the .22-250, but with the heavier bullets (such as a 64 gr power point for example), used with the higher twist rate of the .223, coupled with a slightly lower velocity (a good thing in this case), it's ALSO gonna work just fine on those occasions where you have to punch through bone, including even a brain shot.

Now if you limit your shots to neck, broadside-low or quartering-away low, then you're golden with .22-250, seems to me, and it's arguably the perfect deer caliber. Certainly makes for easy range sessions.

Just M.O.

And yeah, you *could* load a 55 or heavier grainer in a .22 hornet, .218 bee or similar, but (a) you're gonna have to limit your powder charge so that the bullet doesn't run up on the lands, and (b) it may not shoot well with the 1 in 14" and similar twists of those rifles. .223 Rem or .222 Rem are not only the *practical* minimums in a .22 caliber to get you to 55+ grains, but they also happen to be pretty darned good choices, AFAIAC - with the right bullet, that is. But personally, I think a .22-250 is *generally* a poor choice, since you're not ready for ANY shot that presents itself.

Just a sidebar....though not a .22 cal, it IS a very small case capacity round : the second largest racked buck ever taken (in the record books), and for many years, the #1 buck taken with a gun, was harvested with a .25-20. Granted though, it took two shots and a lot of tracking.


http://images.google.com/images?hl=...&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4

 

[Ksmirk]

I just recalled a hunt several years back that I used a 223 and 55gr. V-Max bullet (I grabbed the wrong box of ammo so go easy on me) shot a doe at around 150 yards bang FLOP neck shot were talking text book shot! got up to her and had to let her bleed out, talk about dropping the spirits of a hunt! I felt like poo. That bullet while it hit where it was supposed to it blew up! that's why bullet choice is so important.

The thing about a 22-250 is the speed and most didn't say all but most .224 caliber bullets are designed for varmints granted deer around my house are considered varmints they take a much stronger bullet, twist of barrel is an issue also. I have a 243 with 1-8 twist barrel to shoot the 107SMK's and it does great but push a Speer 100gr. or Sierra 100gr. to hard and they will never make the target! Great bullets but like everything it has it's limits. Would I shoot a deer with a 22-250? with the right bullet like the Sierra 55gr. GameKing sure I would! do I risk the chance of a not so human kill? Sure I do but I'd not think any more of a chance than with a 308! biggest thing is put the bullet where it's supossed to go and pick a good shot! heck if you don't shoot a deer your not going to starve. Later,

Kirk

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

with the right bullet like the Sierra 55gr. GameKing sure I would!

Exactly! Your anecdote jives with the others re: the varmint bullets, even those on the heavy end of the spectrum, like the 55 gr V-max - 55 is heavy for a .22-250, given the twist rate. You'd also be wise to slow them down a bit if handloading, even if using a 55 Game King. It's that combo of light construction + super high vel + low sectional density + hitting a shoulder/bone that is the problem - even a rib could be disastrous with the wrong bullet at high speed (like a 40 gr V-max).

 

[_CY_]

just curious, why would you think .223 would be better than 22-250 for deer?
22-250 is packing way more powder and what's to prevent one from using a Hornady .75gr or Win 64gr soft nose power point. provided barrel twist is correct at 1:9

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So for ME, I think the .223 rem is around 10 times a better choice for deer than .22-250, because it will work just about as well on neck or standard vitals shots like the .22-250, but with the heavier bullets (such as a 64 gr power point for example), used with the higher twist rate of the .223, coupled with a slightly lower velocity (a good thing in this case), it's ALSO gonna work just fine on those occasions where you have to punch through bone, including even a brain shot.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

just curious, why would you think .223 would be better than 22-250 for deer?
22-250 is packing way more powder and what's to prevent one from using a Hornady .75gr or Win 64gr soft nose power point. provided barrel twist is correct at 1:9

I think what he is getting at is the .223 bullet is more likely to hold together because it is traveling at slightly slower velocities, while the 22-250 is more likely to shatter.

I understand the logic, but don't know if I would choose a .223 over a 22-250. Especially not if I was handloading.

 

[Ksmirk]

This could be argued for years! nothing against the argument but with each post a different opinion will be generated. There are a mess of "What if's" and it's that for about anything you ASK an opinion for, some folks think the smallest thing to shoot a deer with would be a 300WM! some may think that caliber to be the minimum! the biggest thing I can see is if you practice with your rifle (more than a box a season) pick your shots and the most important put the bullet where it's supposed to go will make for good clean human kills.

A 22-250 is packing more powder and power BUT how much is left after it goes thru? 40%, 70%? ya never know what that bullets gonna do after it makes contact with the game! funny I have shot deer with everything from a 223 to 308 and ya know the deer have died! did one kill better than the other? I know that when the rifle went BOOM there was a dead deer! don't know an easier way to say it fella's. Later,

Kirk

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

just curious, why would you think .223 would be better than 22-250 for deer?

Because it's using heavier bullets, which are properly stabilized by the 1 in 9 twist commonly found in .223 rifles. AND, because it's going slower, which is a *good thing* - a bit slower bullet penetrates better than a ultra high vel bullet, given equal construction. Put those two independent factors together, and they equal a point greater than the sum of their parts, meaning that a .22-250 is far more likely to "blow up" on a shoulder and not penetrate. Add in the 3rd factor of the construction of factory loaded bullets in .22-250 which are nearly all thin-jacketed frangible bullets, and you've got a good recipe for poor performance on intermediate obstacles, quite unlike a .223 with a heavier and more heavily constructed bullet.

22-250 is packing way more powder

Right. That's the problem - you don't want that.

and what's to prevent one from using a Hornady .75gr or Win 64gr soft nose power point. provided barrel twist is correct at 1:9

Well nothing in theory - but that's just it - they don't MAKE .22-250 rifles with a 1 in 9 twist -the only factory .22-250 with a 1 in 9 is a 12 pound Savage LRPV, and I don't think anyone's gonna hunt deer with it.

http://www.savagearms.com/12PrecVarm.htm


Sure with a custom rifle barrel, you betcha, however.

 

[_CY_]

many thanks for raising issue of barrel twist and weight of bullets. the custom 22-250 I'm building up has a Lija barrel with 1/12 twist. yes they offer a 9 and 8 twist in 22-250 for shooting 75 & 80 gr bullets.

after much digging and speaking to Lilja... it seems it's not the bullet weight but the length of bullet that matters for stabilization. usually heavier the bullet, the longer.

bench shooters typically will shoot a 68 gr bullet in stainless match barrel like I'm using. for optimal accuracy they like to shoot the slowest possible twist and still stabilize bullet.

Lilja's chart for bullet weights and twist
http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#twist rates

Because it's using heavier bullets, which are properly stabilized by the 1 in 9 twist commonly found in .223 rifles. AND, because it's going slower, which is a *good thing* - a bit slower bullet penetrates better than a ultra high vel bullet, given equal construction. Put those two independent factors together, and they equal a point greater than the sum of their parts, meaning that a .22-250 is far more likely to "blow up" on a shoulder and not penetrate. Add in the 3rd factor of the construction of factory loaded bullets in .22-250 which are nearly all thin-jacketed frangible bullets, and you've got a good recipe for poor performance on intermediate obstacles, quite unlike a .223 with a heavier and more heavily constructed bullet.



Right. That's the problem - you don't want that.



Well nothing in theory - but that's just it - they don't MAKE .22-250 rifles with a 1 in 9 twist -the only factory .22-250 with a 1 in 9 is a 12 pound Savage LRPV, and I don't think anyone's gonna hunt deer with it.

http://www.savagearms.com/12PrecVarm.htm


Sure with a custom rifle barrel, you betcha, however.

 

[338Shooter]

Velocity is also important when considering twist to stabilize the longer bullets. If the bullet is going faster out of a slower twist it may actually be spinning the same speed or faster than a slower bullet out of a faster twist.