Zimmerman/Martin trial in FL

[Jefpainthorse]

just a thought, but if GZ was acting as a neighborhood watch captain, then the neighborhood and members also bear responcibility for GZ actions. If this turns out to be the case, i hope TMs parents own the neighborhood.

If there was no chartered watch program, then GZ was acting solely as a citizen with no duty or reason to patrol or confront TM. If this is the case, GZ deserves whatever befalls him.

BTW it is my understanding (but im not certain) that Neighborhood watch organizations has a charter with guidelines that specifically state to call authorities, never confront suspects and Firearms are prohibited. If thats the case, poor George is screwed.

If that was a recognized program,,, someone will take a crack at the deeper (insured pockets) of the Watch Association.
In Florida they are "regulated" for lack of a better word. Charters, recognition and training from the local PC etc.

Someone is already figuing out how to distance that NWA from any agency with Zimmerman...this is gonna get good... and will drag on 10 or 15 years with the colateral stuff.

 

[TerryMiller]

This thead, partly because of the news media's reporting, is full of speculation. I've heard reports that Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked by Martin. Now, since I can only say I've heard that from one source, I am not putting any credibility on the report....yet.

What I will report is that NBC, home of the Today show where the infamous 911 audio was played, has fired at least two people over the doctoring of that 911 audio. A key question, asked by the 911 operator, was removed from that audio played on the Today show. The differences between the original NBC clip and the actual 911 tape are reported on in the following news report. That removed question was the dispatcher asking about the "intruder's" race. The removal of that question directly led to the media giving the impression that Zimmerman was profiling.

News story on fired NBC employees and doctored 911 tape.

Now, since none of us, including myself, are in possession of all the facts, it does little good to place blame on either Zimmerman or Martin. In fact, there may yet be evidence or eyewitness accounts that have not been released to the media that would change the entire picture of this event.

However, I do want to blame the news media for adding to the racial divides of this country by reporting on stories that are not confirmed, as evidenced by the doctored 911 tape.

 

[twoguns?]

This thead, partly because of the news media's reporting, is full of speculation. I've heard reports that Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked by Martin. Now, since I can only say I've heard that from one source, I am not putting any credibility on the report....yet.

What I will report is that NBC, home of the Today show where the infamous 911 audio was played, has fired at least two people over the doctoring of that 911 audio. A key question, asked by the 911 operator, was removed from that audio played on the Today show. The differences between the original NBC clip and the actual 911 tape are reported on in the following news report. That removed question was the dispatcher asking about the "intruder's" race. The removal of that question directly led to the media giving the impression that Zimmerman was profiling.

News story on fired NBC employees and doctored 911 tape.

Now, since none of us, including myself, are in possession of all the facts, it does little good to place blame on either Zimmerman or Martin. In fact, there may yet be evidence or eyewitness accounts that have not been released to the media that would change the entire picture of this event.

However, I do want to blame the news media for adding to the racial divides of this country by reporting on stories that are not confirmed, as evidenced by the doctored 911 tape.

I read that somewhere too. That when GZ was told ..'we dont need you following him" he was returning to his vechicle, when he was savagely attacked by a young thuggish sort of person that turned out to be poor TM....dang I cant remember where I thought of that.

 

[gregorius]

You are totally correct, but I think that the speculation is the interesting part for most of us. I think that is why we have been discussing it endlessly since the story initially broke.

Regarding the profiling - I think if we are all being honest here, we would admit that we ALL profile people. You can't help but have your prejudices. Everyone does.

I do agree that the news media is complicit in throwing fuel on the fire when it comes to race relations in this country, they have been doing it for many years - as far back as I can remember. Its sensationalist journalism at its worst. In fact, I am not really sure most of what is out there in the news media would even be considered journalism anymore, it is mostly editorializing, postulation and sensationalizing with a thin veneer of journalism, and there doesn't really seem to be anything resembling "journalistic integrity" at all anymore. It is the reason my wife stopped working in news media. She edits catalogs now. It is much more honest work, to hear her tell it.

 

[TerryMiller]

You are totally correct, but I think that the speculation is the interesting part for most of us. I think that is why we have been discussing it endlessly since the story initially broke.

Regarding the profiling - I think if we are all being honest here, we would admit that we ALL profile people. You can't help but have your prejudices. Everyone does.

I do agree that the news media is complicit in throwing fuel on the fire when it comes to race relations in this country, they have been doing it for many years - as far back as I can remember. Its sensationalist journalism at its worst. In fact, I am not really sure most of what is out there in the news media would even be considered journalism anymore, it is mostly editorializing, postulation and sensationalizing with a thin veneer of journalism, and there doesn't really seem to be anything resembling "journalistic integrity" at all anymore. It is the reason my wife stopped working in news media. She edits catalogs now. It is much more honest work, to hear her tell it.

Heh, heh. Good for your wife and her decision.

At one time, I even seriously considered becoming a journalist. As such, I have long been a "student" of journalism and have observed some very bad instances of shoddy work, even from a major figure such as Dan Rather. His attempt to take proven false documents and try to damage George W. Bush are an example. Even after the documents were proven to be forgeries, he still insisted that it was a valid story.

It's a good thing I changed my Journalism major to "Party" while I was in college. Had I became a journalist, I would now have to shoot myself.

 

[Boehlertaught]

Readinf all of the posts is interesting. I actually don't have an opinion about what happened...just sorry things like this do happen. There are many great posts here, Gregorius' #94 is the last I read...I agree with it. I also agree that if someone is getting a severe ass kicking they have the right to defend themselves...but with whatever force is necessary to make the beating stop. The force need not be overwhelming and retalitory. I shouldn't have laughed about any of this but I am sorry I did laugh at what Lurker66 reported that Obama said...paraphrased...If I had a son he would look like TM. Uh, seriously! Sorry folks that just seems funny.
We'll not know the end of this till it is over. Mr. Zimmerman will either go to jail or he will not. I do guess the deck is stacked against him, at least partly, though as we have not heard that the NRA is giving him their support. Should they?
Be safe and have fun

 

[Rajder]

I try to look at it from the kids point of view. I think I pretty much understand where GZ was coming from and why he was doing what he was doing. It was ill advised, but I think I at least understand it.

If it were me, and I was walking down my street minding my own business and some random car started to follow me from a distance you can be damn sure I would be ready to go if someone gets out of that car to confront me about anything. I think I am suspicious by nature, but once you start sweating someone and then try to confront or detain them with no authority to do so then there will probably be a fight, at least with a lot of dudes there would be. By the time GZ got out of the car the kid was probably on very high alert, and who could blame him? I would have decked the prick, too - and probably gotten shot for it. Damn. Its a messed up thing to even think about.

But then I remember that I am white, so this sort of thing is pretty unlikely to happen to me. For better or worse, prejudice comes into play here. If it was a white guy, somehow I doubt GZ would have been so quick to assume him a thief and be so ready and willing to get in his face.

I am in the same boat as all of us - I don't know what happened. It will be interesting to see it all play out, but no matter what I think it is pretty obvious that GZ is an overzealous cop wannabe. The two things that scare me the most are probably cop wannabes with something to prove and thug life wannabes with something to prove. I think both are probably more likely to shoot your ass than actual cops or gangstas.

I think exactly like you. Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time telling her that he was freaked out because some dude in a car was following him. She told him to run and Martin started running TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN! That's when Zimmerman exited the vehicle and started following Martin. Martin's girlfriend says the last thing she heard was Zimmerman ask Martin what he was doing there. Which means that Zimmerman initiated the contact (and did not get jumped by Martin). When I was 17 I probably would have punched the guy as well. Some random stranger, WITH NO AUTHORITY, watching and following me and then chasing me down would have freaked me out when I was 17 years (and by Martin's girlfriends account he was freaked out about it). I might have swung first and asked questions later as well.

 

[BReeves]

Agreed it's all speculation based on what we have heard combined with our individual feelings and prejudices .. I don't think ZM should have been charged at all and hope he gets off.

 

[twoguns?]

I think exactly like you. Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend at the time telling her that he was freaked out because some dude in a car was following him. She told him to run and Martin started running TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM ZIMMERMAN! That's when Zimmerman exited the vehicle and started following Martin. Martin's girlfriend says the last thing she heard was Zimmerman ask Martin what he was doing there. Which means that Zimmerman initiated the contact (and did not get jumped by Martin). When I was 17 I probably would have punched the guy as well. Some random stranger, WITH NO AUTHORITY, watching and following me and then chasing me down would have freaked me out when I was 17 years (and by Martin's girlfriends account he was freaked out about it). I might have swung first and asked questions later as well.

.....THIS IS WHY TM GOT SHOT....not enough answers

 

[farmerbyron]

TM could have swung first and still been alive today. From all that has been released so far, he didn't stop at a swing or even a couple blows just to get away. He got on top of GZ and was pounding him. That is why he was shot.


^
All speculation based on the facts presented thus far.