conflicted.... Card #31

[Lurker66]

I just can't imagine what kind of surgery could possibly be needed in this scenario. One guys dying....the other will if he doesn't have surgery. Are we talking heart transplant or putting in a stint? I mean christ, SHTF....it better be some kinda pretty simple surgery....anything past simple a appendectomy or maybe tying off or trying to reattach an artery and I say let em die.

I guess I'm not thinking of possible life saving examples of surgeries that would require practice.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Ok, Dave and Danny ... I think I'm looking at this a different way than you guys are. I immediately got visions of some medical transcriptionist, with "medical expertise", attempting open heart surgery and then tossing some willow bark and a couple of Echinacea flowers at the patient, declaring the "surgery" a success ...

Of course, if you guys had seen and heard some of the folks I've run into over the years (yes, "those" folks -- Good God I miss Redmax ... ) ... that's one of the reasons I am so adamant here that if you want to be part of your group's medical team then go to school, get some real world training NOW and start stocking up ...

And the cheap seats are fine, Danny ... thank you ...

 

[BadgeBunny]

Oh ... and while I'm thinking about it I don't know if I'd be willing to be the second guy but I'd certainly give some serious thought to going first if my time here was done and it meant someone else might get a better chance at surviving ...

 

[Old Timer]

In a SHTF situation, I would be very hesitant to do anything more then very minor surgery,
even if there was a surgeon in the house. No surgeon remembers all procedures all of the time.
It would be hard for anyone to be able to survive without a miracle.
Growing up in the country, you learn all you can when the vet has to come by,
or even if the neighbor calls for assistance with the new calves. The more I know
about doctoring, the more I understand why it is a practice. You are always learning.

Now having said that, if I was the first person, I would be glad to "take one for the team"
and hope for the miracle to save #2.

 

[tRidiot]

Ok, Dave and Danny ... I think I'm looking at this a different way than you guys are. I immediately got visions of some medical transcriptionist, with "medical expertise", attempting open heart surgery and then tossing some willow bark and a couple of Echinacea flowers at the patient, declaring the "surgery" a success ...

Of course, if you guys had seen and heard some of the folks I've run into over the years (yes, "those" folks -- Good God I miss Redmax ... ) ... that's one of the reasons I am so adamant here that if you want to be part of your group's medical team then go to school, get some real world training NOW and start stocking up ...

And the cheap seats are fine, Danny ... thank you ...

I get that, ok. I agree, you don't want someone who was just an ancillary member of a medical team jumping in over their head - and I'm not dogging anyone as "just" anything... transcriptionists, med tech, nurse's aides, even the people who clean the rooms, floors, laundry, toilets, whatever... I am as big an advocate as you could want, and will defend them against "administration" any time! I started out in the medical field at or very near the bottom of the skill pool, so I know how many people it takes to make it work, and how much everyone contributes.

But yes, we need to make certain our medical providers, even in a SHTF situation, have at least rudimentary training, and know their own limitations - and that the GROUP knows that person's limitations, as well! I can foresee some friction when you've got someone dying or potentially dying and they are getting pressured to "do something!" Peer pressure, fear of the group losing faith in them, desire to please and contribute, fear of failure, etc., all play a role. It would be a tough tough spot to be in.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much help I could be, without modern equipment, testing and medications. Basic first aid notwithstanding, we are heavily reliant on technology. I am not all that well-versed in holistic medicine, nor do I buy alot of the claims I get from folks about what works. Hey, if you want it to work, it may work for you - placebo affect, power of suggestion, mystic auras, whatever works... if it helps ease your suffering and feel better about living in a world gone to ****, and it doesn't hurt anyone else or take away from the group, then have at it, man.

 

[Lurker66]

I'm always amazed how the Navy can take a 20yo hickleberry and give him a 3 n half month crash course in basic first aid and A&P and some very basic other med training......then toss em in with Marines or on a Ship.

Surgery ain't that hard, just try to be as sterile or clean as possible and do your best.

 

[tRidiot]

I'm always amazed how the Navy can take a 20yo hickleberry and give him a 3 n half month crash course in basic first aid and A&P and some very basic other med training......then toss em in with Marines or on a Ship.

Surgery ain't that hard, just try to be as sterile or clean as possible and do your best.

Because their main goal is basic stabilization... not long-term management or proper care. I have worked with some "flight surgeons" who were military trained, and while they can do a lot in the field, it's a far cry from definitive and proper care - it's plugging holes with fingers, not repairing cracks in dams.

No offense to those out there in the field who have done this job. It's a very necessary skill, and let's face it, physicians for the most part aren't going to be volunteering to jump into helicopters and war zones for $50k/year. They're a very special group, yes, but it's also a very limited field. Thank God they're willing to do it.

 

[ratski]

I'm always amazed how the Navy can take a 20yo hickleberry and give him a 3 n half month crash course in basic first aid and A&P and some very basic other med training......then toss em in with Marines or on a Ship.

Surgery ain't that hard, just try to be as sterile or clean as possible and do your best.

yes and no.

That three month crash course is pretty intense.
And, it isn't a course in surgery. It is a course in "keep this guy alive until he can get to a better level of care"

It is also, who is going to die and who can I save.
Don't waste your time and supplies on the ones that are too far gone for you to help.

Plus, the military's courses are a bit more intense than civilian versions.
There are some things that these hicleberries can do in the confines of the military that can not be done in the civilian sector.

You are correct in a sense that surgery ain't that hard.
Successful surgery, however, is.

Dave

 

[Lurker66]

yes and no.

That three month crash course is pretty intense.
And, it isn't a course in surgery. It is a course in "keep this guy alive until he can get to a better level of care"

It is also, who is going to die and who can I save.
Don't waste your time and supplies on the ones that are too far gone for you to help.

Plus, the military's courses are a bit more intense than civilian versions.
There are some things that these hicleberries can do in the confines of the military that can not be done in the civilian sector.

You are correct in a sense that surgery ain't that hard.
Successful surgery, however, is.

Dave

Having been a Corps man I've got a pretty good grasp. Doctoring an surgery is way over rated. Again, we're talking SHTF, I doubt many transplants and plastic surgery will be routine. Field surgery, on the other hand, anyone that aint queezy can do it, with minimal training.

From my personal experience Doctoring n surgery really ain't a lot different that welding/fabbing/mechanicing. Just a few basic skills n anyone can do an apendectomy, perform a good amputation, remove a tooth, replace an eyeball or remove a bowel obstruction.

Diagnosing illnesses is as simple as reading, then applying what you've learned.

 

[tRidiot]

Having been a Corps man I've got a pretty good grasp. Doctoring an surgery is way over rated. Again, we're talking SHTF, I doubt many transplants and plastic surgery will be routine. Field surgery, on the other hand, anyone that aint queezy can do it, with minimal training.

From my personal experience Doctoring n surgery really ain't a lot different that welding/fabbing/mechanicing. Just a few basic skills n anyone can do an apendectomy, perform a good amputation, remove a tooth, replace an eyeball or remove a bowel obstruction.

Diagnosing illnesses is as simple as reading, then applying what you've learned.

Actually... it's like drinking from a fire hydrant. The volume is immense. Then take what you've learned and apply it through art, experience and intuition. Sometimes things are textbook... sometimes it's an art to figure out.


I've always said anyone with probably slightly above-average intelligence can get through medical school, provided they have the discipline to study. It's the volume that's the problem, not the complexity of the material. Everything builds on the blocks laid before it. It's about putting in the time and effort, not about "talent" or gifts.


I don't usually tell people what I do unless they specifically ask, and often I avoid specifics about that question, too. Of course, anyone in sales or retail gets a vague non-answer, lol. It's not a big deal, nothing to flaunt or to be overly proud of, IMO. It's just a job. I don't even display my diploma or certifications anywhere or take any specific pride in it. In fact, my diploma, certificates and board cert are actually in a folder, I think, slid down between the desk and the wall in the spare bedroom/office that no one ever goes in.