Trump pardoned former sheriff Joe Arpaio

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Glocktogo

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In reading this thread, it appears that Dave agrees that Obama's apparently racially motivated and willful disregard for the rule of law set a bad precedent, but we shouldn't excuse Arpaio (or Trump) for doing the same, correct?

I would like to point out that when federal agencies enforce immigration law and detain people for unlawful presence, they do so with federal law enforcement agents. While processing aliens for unlawful presence and eventual deportation is mostly civil enforcement, federal law enforcement agents are authorized by law to pursue civil cases in certain circumstances. Further, unlawful re-entry into the U.S. after a prior deportation order is a crime and may be prosecuted under 18 U.S.C.


If a local or state law enforcement agency voluntarily elects to pursue enforcement of immigration law via 287(g), they obtain certification and training from the federal government to do so. Abuse of the program happens but isn't as rampant as the left would have you believe. It isn't unlawful for an agency to know and understand patterns of criminal activity and demographics. If officers working a certain beat arrest overwhelmingly minority subjects, that doesn't mean they're racially profiling if the overwhelming majority of the residents are minority as well. likewise, immigration enforcement along the southern border isn't racist just because the overwhelming majority of people detained are brown skinned Hispanics, because that's the demographic inherent to unlawful immigration on the southern border.

Now if immigration enforcement on the Canadian border detained predominantly Hispanics, THAT might indicate racial profiling. Likewise detention of predominantly whites on the southern border might be racial profiling. Too many people today mistake demographics for racism. Therefore it's incumbent upon the agencies in question, to document that targeted enforcement stems from crime trend analysis and not racial demographics.

FWIW, I think Sheriff Joe failed in that area because he felt justified in doing what he did, just because he knew or assumed that he was right and his detractors were wrong. That's a surefire way to lose 287(g) certification. You have to verify and justify every action you take in accordance with law and legal precedent, if you want to survive the intense level of scrutiny an agency is subjected to in society today.
 

Dave70968

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@GTG, I think you've hit it pretty squarely on the head. The only thing I think you've missed is that Arpaio (specifically) was detaining people to verify immigration status (and delivering them to the feds) without suspicion of any crime. State and local law enforcement working on immigration generally do so incidentally to a suspicion of criminal activity; Arpaio was essentially setting up his own checkpoints and sweeps with no suspicion of any criminal activity. The injunction specifically said there is no inherent state/local authority to do so, yet Arpaio was doing exactly that.
 

YukonGlocker

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@GTG, I think you've hit it pretty squarely on the head. The only thing I think you've missed is that Arpaio (specifically) was detaining people to verify immigration status (and delivering them to the feds) without suspicion of any crime. State and local law enforcement working on immigration generally do so incidentally to a suspicion of criminal activity; Arpaio was essentially setting up his own checkpoints and sweeps with no suspicion of any criminal activity. The injunction specifically said there is no inherent state/local authority to do so, yet Arpaio was doing exactly that.
yep
 

Glocktogo

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@GTG, I think you've hit it pretty squarely on the head. The only thing I think you've missed is that Arpaio (specifically) was detaining people to verify immigration status (and delivering them to the feds) without suspicion of any crime. State and local law enforcement working on immigration generally do so incidentally to a suspicion of criminal activity; Arpaio was essentially setting up his own checkpoints and sweeps with no suspicion of any criminal activity. The injunction specifically said there is no inherent state/local authority to do so, yet Arpaio was doing exactly that.
I probably didn't detail that aspect enough. You can get away with doing that (and I don't approve of this tactic) by law, if you have a substantial impact in a localized area or neighborhood due to criminal activity out of proportion with the rest of your jurisdiction. IOW, if 80% of your violent crime occurs in a small, localized zone which is essentially controlled by criminal syndicates, you can document those facts and use checkpoints to deter crime and apprehend criminals. It would work equally well on any gang, regardless of race or other demographics.

I don't think that was what Sheriff Joe was doing.
 

lee1000

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If your voting mirrors your logic, you're part of the reason our political system is so deeply damaged.

The real world isn't black-and-white, no matter how much easier it is to think that way.
Immigrants vote democrat, democrats vote for guns bans. It really is this simple, you're trying to make it more complicated than it is. Stop it

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lee1000

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What does this have to do with ol' Joe's violations of constitutional rights? Are you saying that Joe violating constitutional rights for the sake of immigration issues is ok? If not, what is it?
You couldn't care less about constitutional rights, you're a liberal who wants open borders. You're being disingenuous

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YukonGlocker

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You couldn't care less about constitutional rights, you're a liberal who wants open borders. You're being disingenuous

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You couldn't be more wrong, and are now triggered into personal attacks instead of discussing the issue at hand. Surely in my 11+ years of posting here, you can find some evidence to back up your claim about me not caring about constitutional rights, right? Let's see it.

Back on topic, are you saying that ol' Joe violating constitutional rights for the sake of immigration issues is ok? If not, what is your point?
 

lee1000

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You couldn't be more wrong, and are now triggered into personal attacks instead of discussing the issue at hand. Surely in my 11+ years of posting here, you can find some evidence to back up your claim about me not caring about constitutional rights, right? Let's see it.

Back on topic, are you saying that ol' Joe violating constitutional rights for the sake of immigration issues is ok? If not, what is your point?
Asking about immigration status is not unconstitutional, at least it shouldn't be.

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