Ok, how does the 300 winmag compare to the 308?
Better.
Well, after looking on remmys site, I'm not seeing a 300 varmint. I guess it will be the 308. Thanks fellas!
To the bold part...no way.
The 30-06 is the parent case for 308 win. basically the same case that is able to hold about 3 more grains of Varget.
Lets see some data to support the second part. I shoot 25 WSSM and that is just hype they use to sell those. The advantage to the shorter case is a shorter action. This can mean a stiffer more rigid platform for the gun, but most accuracy comes from the barrel. If the chamber and crown are tip top, you're gonna have a tack driver no matter what the case is as long as the ammo is quality and consistent. When Ackley improves rounds, he does it to get more case capacity. That steep freakin shoulder doesn't help with function that's for sure. That's basically what it boils down to is case capacity. Trajectory comes from BC and velocity. You try your damndest to increase both. Accuracy comes from the barrel.
Similarly set up precision rifles chambered in -06 and 308 will perform similarly in the hands of a competent marksman. The -06 will have to come up less than the 308 because of the increased velocity, but they will both print nicely when they get there. The -06 loses in recoil. The increase in recoil is much more than the increase in velocity. The 308 gets the job done, but is underbore. Similar case capacity rounds in 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm perform better out to range.
My $0.02.
Lots of interesting comments here.
The 308 is not inherently more accurate. The Army didnt want to go whole hog into the AR types and opted to reduce the 30/06 into a slightly better handling rifle. Thats how the 308 was born.
Both the 30/06 and 308 can be tweeked to be .5 to .25 moa accurate/precision/what the cool word is these days.
Snipers didnt push the 308 over the 30/06, the military dropped the 30 aught n the snipers followed.
Beanfield rifles and the caliber/cartridge they 'need'. My best one shot dropped it buck was 486 yards with a 308. no need to rum or mag it. Just learn to range guess and read wind.
Lots of variables in the what range can the ________ go to. Nice long barrel or short handy carbine. 168/178/190 grain boattail. how much training does the shooter have?
On days when the 308 is a 50/50 at 1000 the 300 wm is 90%. Know the rifle, know the cartridge, know your limitations.
Can say one thing about the wieght of ammo. It doesnt matter to the grunt, he'll carry as much as he can get his hands on. To the mule under the ruck effective ammo beats lots that dont seem to have an immediate effect on target.
Sooooo- wounding one so 4 will carry him isnt what a grunt wants. We are trained to ignore our fallen buddies in the assault waves, the follow-up wave does evac- mission first guys. Casualities would be far worse if the assault falters because the assault troops stop and render aid. Its a cold cruel world.
What our 11B wants is one dead dude per bullet, maybe a three round burst per dead enemy hero.
If you want a flatter than 'name the round' you end up chasing your tail. there are barrel burning cartridges coming out every week. pick one you can handle the recoil often enough to have good practise sessions and dont worry what the guy next to you has.
Nice cartridges for long range hunting are plentiful. 7mm nonmagnums are great. 6.5 running no longer than 57mm case length with the proper bullet can be a most excellent beanfield round.
Dont overthink it.
From a racoon at 220 yards to a buck just under 500 to steel at 1000 I use the 308.
There are two roads to travel, one buys skill and one develops it. The first road is a five lane highway, the other the path less taken but those you meet on it are worth a visit.
But if the story starts, "So there I was and this is no ****..." take it with a grain of salt
The 308 is not inherently more accurate. The Army didnt want to go whole hog into the AR types and opted to reduce the 30/06 into a slightly better handling rifle. Thats how the 308 was born.
Both the 30/06 and 308 can be tweeked to be .5 to .25 moa accurate/precision/what the cool word is these days.
Snipers didnt push the 308 over the 30/06, the military dropped the 30 aught n the snipers followed.
Beanfield rifles and the caliber/cartridge they 'need'. My best one shot dropped it buck was 486 yards with a 308. no need to rum or mag it. Just learn to range guess and read wind.
Lots of variables in the what range can the ________ go to. Nice long barrel or short handy carbine. 168/178/190 grain boattail. how much training does the shooter have?
On days when the 308 is a 50/50 at 1000 the 300 wm is 90%. Know the rifle, know the cartridge, know your limitations.
Can say one thing about the wieght of ammo. It doesnt matter to the grunt, he'll carry as much as he can get his hands on. To the mule under the ruck effective ammo beats lots that dont seem to have an immediate effect on target.
Sooooo- wounding one so 4 will carry him isnt what a grunt wants. We are trained to ignore our fallen buddies in the assault waves, the follow-up wave does evac- mission first guys. Casualities would be far worse if the assault falters because the assault troops stop and render aid. Its a cold cruel world.
What our 11B wants is one dead dude per bullet, maybe a three round burst per dead enemy hero.
If you want a flatter than 'name the round' you end up chasing your tail. there are barrel burning cartridges coming out every week. pick one you can handle the recoil often enough to have good practise sessions and dont worry what the guy next to you has.
Nice cartridges for long range hunting are plentiful. 7mm nonmagnums are great. 6.5 running no longer than 57mm case length with the proper bullet can be a most excellent beanfield round.
Dont overthink it.
From a racoon at 220 yards to a buck just under 500 to steel at 1000 I use the 308.
There are two roads to travel, one buys skill and one develops it. The first road is a five lane highway, the other the path less taken but those you meet on it are worth a visit.
But if the story starts, "So there I was and this is no ****..." take it with a grain of salt
Lots of interesting comments here.
The 308 is not inherently more accurate. The Army didnt want to go whole hog into the AR types and opted to reduce the 30/06 into a slightly better handling rifle. Thats how the 308 was born.
Both the 30/06 and 308 can be tweeked to be .5 to .25 moa accurate/precision/what the cool word is these days.
Snipers didnt push the 308 over the 30/06, the military dropped the 30 aught n the snipers followed.
Beanfield rifles and the caliber/cartridge they 'need'. My best one shot dropped it buck was 486 yards with a 308. no need to rum or mag it. Just learn to range guess and read wind.
Lots of variables in the what range can the ________ go to. Nice long barrel or short handy carbine. 168/178/190 grain boattail. how much training does the shooter have?
On days when the 308 is a 50/50 at 1000 the 300 wm is 90%. Know the rifle, know the cartridge, know your limitations.
Can say one thing about the wieght of ammo. It doesnt matter to the grunt, he'll carry as much as he can get his hands on. To the mule under the ruck effective ammo beats lots that dont seem to have an immediate effect on target.
Sooooo- wounding one so 4 will carry him isnt what a grunt wants. We are trained to ignore our fallen buddies in the assault waves, the follow-up wave does evac- mission first guys. Casualities would be far worse if the assault falters because the assault troops stop and render aid. Its a cold cruel world.
What our 11B wants is one dead dude per bullet, maybe a three round burst per dead enemy hero.
If you want a flatter than 'name the round' you end up chasing your tail. there are barrel burning cartridges coming out every week. pick one you can handle the recoil often enough to have good practise sessions and dont worry what the guy next to you has.
Nice cartridges for long range hunting are plentiful. 7mm nonmagnums are great. 6.5 running no longer than 57mm case length with the proper bullet can be a most excellent beanfield round.
Dont overthink it.
From a racoon at 220 yards to a buck just under 500 to steel at 1000 I use the 308.
There are two roads to travel, one buys skill and one develops it. The first road is a five lane highway, the other the path less taken but those you meet on it are worth a visit.
But if the story starts, "So there I was and this is no ****..." take it with a grain of salt
I really like this advice. Thanks! I think my problem is I'm trying to find "the" ultimate round for long range when I should be looking for the best round for what I want.
Deadeyedick, the answer of course (for your long range issue) is "better" - BUT you are asking the wrong question! So there's no way you can get a "good" answer.
A 6.5-284 Norma or 6.5x55 vastly outperforms even the .300 Win mag at 1,000 yards, and - AND, it has a lot less recoil & blast and uses less ammo / component / cost in doing it. It's win-win. .30 cal cartridges are lose-lose.
Reason being that once you get up to a decent BC in .300, you're looking at a 210 grainer, or at least a 190, and that's so big that you lose way more vel than the BC can make up for. But a 139 grain Berger, Scenar, or SMK out of a 6.5mm going fast (say, 2850+), with their outstanding BCs, smokes any .300 once you get out to 1K yards or beyond. Pretty much any 7mm round is also ditto.
If you're asking about ANY cartridge that uses a .308 bullet, then you're asking the wrong question, if your goal is superior long range performance. You pretty much have to go all the way to a big .338 (lapua or RUM) to best the 6.5s and 7mms out past 1000 yards; really even past 800. In my opinion. And that of people who really ARE experts (unlike me).
Go read the works of Zak Smith and other 'practical long-range' competitors, who do amazing things with .260 Rem at long range, easily besting .308**, and .260 is *slow* compared to a beefed up 6.5x55, 6.5-284, 6.6-'06 AI, etc.
**In the two key components of very long and extreme range shooting, once you get an extemely accurate rig, and obtain some skill: (a) minimizing wind drift estimation error, and (b) minimizing distance estimation and thus holdover/scope click error.
Negative, good buddy. 300 Savage is the parent case for .308.
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