Airport Pat-Downs: TSA Says it Can Fine You for Backing Out

[MrBaldy]

Outside the scope of authority would be if they were screening in a public, non-sterile area, screening for something other than prohibited items, or screening beyond the proscribed procedures.

So your saying any type of search for a "prohibited item" is okay as long as it's in a private sterile room? I'm sorry, but I really don't agree the end justify the means.

These instances, while humiliating and condemnable if true, do not rise to the level of civil rights violations. If someone you know humiliates you, are they violating your civil rights? You don't just get to make up what you feel are civil rights violations based on emotion. We still use reason in this country, at least some of the time. Seems like a lot more these days, people want to automatically go to the nuclear option first. Someone does something you don't like and they're a racist or bigot or violating peoples civil rights. While you'd probably agree with the ACLU in these instances, how many times would you normally agree with them?

Oh, and I mentioned that two of those 5 instances have already been proven false, yet you managed to lump them back in as "civil rights violations" anyway. It's difficult to have a reasonable discourse on a subject if the other side is unwilling to acknowledge false arguments as false.

I think I'm going to have to ignore these threads from now on. So everyone can now continue to spread rumors and falsehoods as gospel, think with their feelings rather than reason, and generally have a good old time roasting marshmallows at the witch hunt. Sorry to spoil everyone's fun.

Wow ... racist, bigot? You do understand that "Civil Rights" mean more than just what happened in the 1960's? Since you seem to have a issue with that designation, I'll start saying "Rights of the people" if that helps.

Perhaps you can help me understand the reasoning behind the enhanced pat downs and security. You must be actively stopping and or deterring by your presence many real threats, not just Grandpa with a knife he forgot to take out. What additional levels of "stopping and or deterring" can we expect to see in the following twelve months? In other words, please state the expected benefit for the increased inconvenience. If you don't know, it's okay to say I have no idea. Also, please state the number of security failures that resulted in an incident which led to the implementation of the new procedures. Again, it's okay to say you have no idea, if you don't know the answer. It seems to me without specific answers to the questions above you can't make a rational decision concerning the changes.

 

[saltydog]

What really bothers me about these TSA events of body searching, pat downs or X-Ray machines,etc, that it may well be a serious stepping stone to body searches, or searches in general. What is to keep law authorities from stepping in and asking for body searches, or just searching, anywhere on our roads? The Bill of Rights? Yea right.

I can hear it now;

"If we do these searches, we can prevent the tens of thousands of deaths a year caused by drunk driving, drugs, illegal guns, you name it"!

After all, more deaths occur on our roads than Airplanes falling from the sky, accidental or otherwise.

The Bill of Rights? It's still there but not recoginzed much anymore.

Just my opinion on what I see.

 

[penismightier]

What really bothers me about these TSA events of body searching, pat downs or X-Ray machines,etc, that it may well be a serious stepping stone to body searches, or searches in general. What is to keep law authorities from stepping in and asking for body searches, or just searching, anywhere on our roads? The Bill of Rights? Yea right.

I can hear it now;

"If we do these searches, we can prevent the tens of thousands of deaths a year caused by drunk driving, drugs, illegal guns, you name it"!

After all, more deaths occur on our roads than Airplanes falling from the sky, accidental or otherwise.

The Bill of Rights? It's still there but not recoginzed much anymore.

Just my opinion on what I see.

Ummm.... they already have DUI/DL enforcement checkpoints.... which HAVE been ruled as constitutional...

 

[cjjtulsa]

Profiling is not the answer and to think so is incredibly closed minded.

Profiling is the answer, and if one is truly "open minded", then they'll keep an "open mind" to the option of profiling.

 

[Nighthawk]

I am hearing all this, but lets hear some better ideas than what is now in place to insure something does not get on board a plane, other than shoot them all and let God sort them out. LOL

It sounds to me they are dong the best they can with what they have to work with. JMO

Oh, and I did not want to linger too long at the airport to actually check out the weapon the officer had. It did not notice if it was full auto or semi.

 

[Dale00]

I am hearing all this, but lets hear some better ideas than what is now in place to insure something does not get on board a plane, other than shoot them all and let God sort them out. LOL

It sounds to me they are dong the best they can with what they have to work with. JMO

I believe this is a far better way than what we have now:

Why They Don’t Need To ‘Touch Your Junk’ At Israeli Airports
by Jeff Dunetz

Fighting against terrorism, an evil which rejects all the basic moral and legal norms of civilized society, is inherently difficult for liberal democracies such as the United States. It forces us to find the right balance between the protection of civil liberties on one hand and the prevention of violence on the other. It is clear that the latest TSA policy which gives passengers the Hobson’s choice of losing your dignity or staying home is not “balanced.”

Many of the issues in front of our policymakers have previously been faced by Israel, a country that has been under the threat of terrorist attack since its inception in 1948. We keep hearing why can’t we run our airport security the same way they do in Israel. Most people, however do not have a clear idea of what is that “Israeli way.”

The real difference between the Israeli and American approach is the target. Israel tries to identify and stop the terrorist while the U.S. targets the bomb or other weapon. This approach does not change whether there is a left or right wing Prime Minister in power because the government realizes for Israel, the fight against terrorism is a fight for its very survival. Thus her government and citizenry have a view of preventing terrorism that is unencumbered by the political correctness which restrains efforts in the United States.

The ISA (Israeli Security Agency) calls it “human factor.” Some part of that human factor would cause Al Sharpton to show up to picket the Airport if it was practiced in the US. Ethnic profiling of passengers plays a central role in Israel’s multi-level approach. Not just ethnicity is profile, race religion, general appearance and behavior are also part of the information used to profile. And wherever that profile is being made, no matter what country it is being made in, it is an Israeli doing the profile.

All passengers travelling to and from Israel are questioned by security staff. For Jewish Israelis, the process takes a couple of minutes at most, with passengers being asked whether they packed their luggage alone, and whether anyone had access to the luggage once it was packed. Jewish tourists also usually pass through security within a few minutes.

When my family entered the El Al terminal at Newark Airport, we were met by someone who asked where we came from and where were going. When we got into the terminal and on the line to check in, an El Al employee asked my 12 year old son (out of my ear’s range) why we were going to Israel. He asked if we were Jewish and when my son answered yes, so followed up by asking the name of our Synagogue and our Rabbi’s name. But while he was asking questions I could feel his eyes gauging my reaction to our kid’s interrogation. The “interrogation” took no longer than thirty seconds. When he was done with my son, he came to me and asked the same questions (plus the typical who packed your luggage-type queries) once again gauging my reaction very closely.

Like the Mossad, tank drivers, and air force pilots, Israeli airport security have that super hero, no-nonsense, get to the point directness and efficiency. “Who packed your bags?” “What was your bar mitzah portion?” “Why are you even here visiting?” This quick-fire interrogation was not bothersome but reassuring. We got the feeling that we were dealing with people who knew what they were doing.

Non-Jewish tourists tend to be questioned a bit more thoroughly, and may be grilled over the purpose of their visit and about their accommodation…

… the procedure for Arabs and Muslims can often be lengthy and irritating, ending with a full body and baggage search. Visitors who have passport stamps from countries hostile to Israel are also questioned intensively in what can be a traumatic experience for the uninitiated.

….Anyone admitting to leaving their luggage at an airport or bus station left-luggage area before check-in will have their suitcases stripped, with each item individually checked and re-packed.

In 2008, Israel’s supreme court rejected a petition presented by a group of disgruntled Israeli Arab citizens, backed by the Association of Civil Rights in Israel, demanding an end to ethnic profiling as discriminatory and illegal.

If I had been more attentive when I was travelling to Israel, I would have noticed that throughout the terminal there were “armed eyes” looking at my family as well as everyone else about to get on a plane. These observers were making the same behavioral profiles as the guy who questioned people on line.

“It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago,” said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy.,.

Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of “distress” — behavioral profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.

“The word ‘profiling’ is a political invention by people who don’t want to do security,” he said. “To us, it doesn’t matter if he’s black, white, young or old. It’s just his behavior. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I’m doing this?”

There are other differences, most importantly is that you don’t just come off the street and get a job with the ISA (Israel Security Agency). These security agents are all ex-military (as most of the country is) and they are selected based on their intelligence and their ability to behavior profile.

Shlomo Harnoy, vice president of the Sdema group, an Israeli security consultancy firm which specialises in aviation security, believes Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian who tried to blow up the Detroit-bound Northwest Airlines aircraft on Christmas Day, would have been detained “within seconds ” at Ben Gurion airport. According to Harnoy, a young Muslim traveling alone, on a one-way ticket, with no luggage, was an obvious suspect.

Harnoy, who once headed the Israel Security Agency’s aviation security department, believes investing millions in new technology is not the answer. “Whoever is concentrating on stopping old ladies bringing a bottle of mineral water on to the plane will not find the terrorist, or the bomb. The old lady is not a suicide bomber and the bottle of water is not a bomb component.”

Not only do most Israeli security selectors have degree-level education, they are trained to the highest standards. The most important element in the “human factor” is that the security guards understand the threat.

And of course, on every El Al flight there are armed air marshals. You won’t know who they are, but I do not recommended you making a fuss mid-air just to find out.

As for my families first brush with Israeli Airport Security, we arrived in Ben Gurion Airport twelve hours later, tired but not even realizing that we went through a more extensive security process than we ever had before.

As the United States defends against the ever expanding threat of Muslim terror, right here on our home turf, success depends on throwing off the shackles of political correctness and adopting the methods of our ally Israel.

However the US is stuck in what seems to be an irreversible and deadly policy of treating everyone the same., even though we are all individuals and very different. The ultimate result is an airport security process that gives you a choice of being abused by a machine or the groping hands of an untrained TSA agent. The present TSA policies put passengers and the X-Ray appliances that reveal their bare bodies in the same category as they are both treated like machines.

http://biggovernment.com/jdunetz/2010/11/23/why-they-dont-need-to-touch-your-junk-at-israeli-airports/

 

[saltydog]

Ummm.... they already have DUI/DL enforcement checkpoints.... which HAVE been ruled as constitutional...

Imagine that.. Maybe someday the govt will find something un-constitutional. From what I have seen for myself in the last 50 years, I won't hold my breath.....

I don't have a problem with the govt looking for bad guys and bad things before they happen, but they can do it without sticking me in that same catagory of morons that they, the govt, want to target.....