Airport Pat-Downs: TSA Says it Can Fine You for Backing Out

[Dale00]

I hear a lot of "wise ones" telling us its not a big deal to be searched. But I don't see where any of them say they have had their genitals groped. Are they in denial that this is being done? If it happens to some else or someone else's child while you slip by I guess it doesn't count.

So I guess they'll support stopping vehicles on the highway randomly for the same pat downs. And if there is a body cavity bomber then they'll be ok with body cavity searches. Maybe the wise ones will tell me that those things will never happen.

One premise of the wise ones is that TSA screening is effective. Where is the proof of this? The screening methods always change after a new type of attack and by then the terrorist planners have moved on to a different tactic. Am I wrong about this? I only recall one shoe bomber and one underwear bomber. To the best of my knowledge TSA has not caught one terrorist.

The reasonable alternative is the Israeli screening method of profiling certain groups for intense scrutiny and targeting individuals with suspicious behaviors. TSA does no profiling and only a tiny amount of the behavior monitoring that the Israelis do. TSA primarily looks for devices on a few random people. This method seems to be a very poor deterrent to a determined terrorist. They're all suicidal fanatics so why should they care that they might get caught? But of course there are ways to deny and dance around this as well.

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

No, I'm buying a ticket for a plane to transfer me from point A to point B. I didn't sign any agreement that the government would keep me safe if I simply agree to hand over my privacy without probable cause. And it doesn't get anymore private than my nekkid body up on a computer screen (in all its glory I might add )

You have other options.

No, I'd be happy if people were allowed to protect themselves instead of the government claiming they're doing the same at the cost of our essential liberties. Really, giving people back their ability to protect themselves and not rely on the cannibals that feast on our liberties that is the government would solve a lot of these problems... But that would cost the establishment money, control, influence and power... And they sure as hell won't be giving any of that up.

Yeah, we need more gunfights on airplanes.

Driving a car in and of itself does not mean I'm breaking the law or about to break the law... What's that document say about unreasonable search and seizures?

What is unreasonable? This is where profiling could be beneficial.

 

[penismightier]

Glock, I wasn't trying to suggest that we throw open the gates, nor was I commenting on the pat downs. I was trying to point out, and obviously poorly, the lack of thought that bureaucrats engage when making rules. It seems that there is little chance that once a regulation is in place, or use the term power, if you will, that there is any going back to reason. The more we give up, the more we will loose and never get back. Surely you can't argue the need to forbid pocketknives any more. While we're on the subject, what is the exact reasoning of scanning the pilots? Surely they don't need a box cutter to take control of the aircraft and crash it.

Who is to say that one pilot doesn't need to "get rid" of the other one in order to make the plane into a steerable weapon of mass destruction? The need is still there, period.

 

[jarhead983]

Who is to say that one pilot doesn't need to "get rid" of the other one in order to make the plane into a steerable weapon of mass destruction? The need is still there, period.

They're trying to blow up planes now, not highjack them and crash them into buildings. You mean to tell me that a member of the flight crew couldn't crash the plane into an Air terminal without first incapacitating the rest of the cockpit crew? Not terribly hard to do either on takeoff or landing. If the will is there for a pilot, he wouldn't need a knife, gun, bomb or shoes.

 

[penismightier]

I hear a lot of "wise ones" telling us its not a big deal to be searched. But I don't see where any of them say they have had their genitals groped. Are they in denial that this is being done? If it happens to some else or someone else's child while you slip by I guess it doesn't count.

In my training, a proper and thorough search of a person will consist of a MINIMUM of three groin passes, with 6 or more being preferred. One might confuse proper techniques with being "groped".

 

[MaddSkillz]

You have other options.

What part do you not understand? That the TSA is part of the government? Or that the Constitution does not allow my privacy to be stripped (pun intended) when I have not displayed any signs of breaking the law? Maybe if it were a private organization that were doing these searches it would be alright (as I could choose to do business elsewhere, or not). But we're talking the TSA here... Which is government and the Constitution is there to regulate them. I guess I'm not understanding how this search is at all Constitutional?

Yeah, we need more gunfights on airplanes.

No, we need more of a deterrent. If you honestly believe the TSA pat-downs are a deterrent to terrorists, I'd be really shocked.

What is unreasonable? This is where profiling could be beneficial.

Do you honestly believe that in order to keep us safe, we need to hand over to government our liberties? Do you really, truly believe that is the only and most effective method?

See, I don't.. And I think that's where you and I differ. I actually believe that if all of our liberties were in tact, we'd be MOAR safer.

 

[Dale00]

Who is to say that one pilot doesn't need to "get rid" of the other one in order to make the plane into a steerable weapon of mass destruction? The need is still there, period.

Profiling is the best means of preventing terrorism by pilots - just like we should have done to that traitorous doctor who shot all those solders in Texas. But it wasn't politically correct to investigate a Muslim so his obvious crazy behavior was swept under the carpet.

In addition, pilots are frequently armed and there is an axe in the cockpit so screening them for pocket knives etc seems absurd.

 

[Dale00]

In my training, a proper and thorough search of a person will consist of a MINIMUM of three groin passes, with 6 or more being preferred. One might confuse proper techniques with being "groped".

What is reasonable and necessary for prisoners is not for random members of the public. We have a right to be secure in our persons. We are free people not prisoners. If you can't understand that you need to reflect upon it awhile.

"A proper series of groin passes" may be devastating to a child or a victim of prior sexual abuse.

 

[GlocksInMySocks]

Profiling is big part of the answer.

Being frisked is really not that big of a deal, my biggest bitch is that they aren't frisking every muslim or every person with a muslim sounding name, or every person traveling to or from a country that is known to support terrorist.

Let's say you have a guy named barrack hussein obama traveling from Pakistan, why shouldn't he be frisked and his luggage be searched?

Profiling is the best means of preventing terrorism by pilots - just like we should have done to that traitorous doctor who shot all those solders in Texas. But it wasn't politically correct to investigate a Muslim so his obvious crazy behavior was swept under the carpet.

In addition, pilots are frequently armed and there is an axe in the cockpit so screening them for pocket knives etc seems absurd.

Profiling is not the answer and to think so is incredibly closed minded.

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

I guess I'm not understanding how this search is at all Constitutional?

You do not have to submit to a search, where is it written that to get from point A to point B that you must travel by air?

No, we need more of a deterrent. If you honestly believe the TSA pat-downs are a deterrent to terrorists, I'd be really shocked.

You're right, like I said earlier, unless they utilize profiling they are letting terrorist get by.

Do you honestly believe that in order to keep us safe, we need to hand over to government our liberties? Do you really, truly believe that is the only and most effective method?

See, I don't.. And I think that's where you and I differ. I actually believe that if all of our liberties were in tact, we'd be MOAR safer.

I do not believe that choosing to submit to scanning and pat downs is infringing on our liberties.