Anyone register a pistol brace?

[JD8]

- The scenarios I presented are solid and every one of you know it, and not one of you know any better about what the 'Founding Fathers' specifically intended when they wrote the various sections of our Constitution 250 years ago than I do, especially those spouting-off about having God-given gun 'Rights'. Okay, show me exactly where in the Ten Commandments or the Old [or New] Testament where it specifically says God has given us the right to have guns, the possession of which '. . . shall not be infringed' - talk about accusing me of 'straw-man' arguments .

I didn't speak of religious arguments because I'm not a christian, nor religious. I did speak of "shall not be infringed" with reference to you apologizing for current brace rules, and then blaming gun owners. Again, we are speaking of a rule, not a law. Something you keep ignoring for some reason. If you understand what strawman means then what you're doing is at the very core of what that means. Hint: We aren't lobbying for criminals to carry explosives.

 

[Chuckie]

Notice you can't argue unless you run through the fallacy book. You're making some REALLY stupid slippery slope strawman sarguments. Stick to subject at hand and address what you said.

We are talking about pistol braces and the overall length of firearms and laws vs "rules" by a government agency. Seemingly you are making arguments for the liberals by saying this equates to RPGs and handgrenades.




Are you intelligent enough to recite the number of crimes committed with NFA items? or even Braced weapons? Are you intelligent enough to understand that we are talking about a RULE, not a law, and the precedent that will set if upheld. A rule they've changed their minds on more than once. Put the scary liberal "they're gonna carry RPGs" speak aside...... and discuss the issue at hand, with respect to your own words. If you can.

Yes, I admit that I took things beyond just arm-braces, because most others also take it way beyond just arm-braces.

But getting back to a more narrow focus, the problem I have is not with the arm-braces themselves but with the ashhats that used those braces to try to circumnavigate the existing laws concerning the exemption from NFA registration requirements that legitimate arm-braced SBR's [for the disabled] enjoy. It angers me the same way as those that park in handicapped spots yet are not handicapped themselves.
Cheating the system so some SBR owners don't have to register their NFA item is really no different than the legal immigrant that spends the time and money, jumps through the hoops, learns the language - all to become a citizen . . . then watches the illegal border crosser be granted citizenship without having to do anything except be a political pawn. It's enough to piss-off the Pope!
Then to add insult to injury, the same ashhats want to blame everyone else because they were caught cheating the system, instead of just saying something like 'I'm so sorry and it won't happen again (wink wink).

 

[Chuckie]

Notice you can't argue unless you run through the fallacy book. You're making some REALLY stupid slippery slope strawman sarguments. Stick to subject at hand and address what you said.

We are talking about pistol braces and the overall length of firearms and laws vs "rules" by a government agency. Seemingly you are making arguments for the liberals by saying this equates to RPGs and handgrenades.




Are you intelligent enough to recite the number of crimes committed with NFA items? or even Braced weapons? Are you intelligent enough to understand that we are talking about a RULE, not a law, and the precedent that will set if upheld. A rule they've changed their minds on more than once. Put the scary liberal "they're gonna carry RPGs" speak aside...... and discuss the issue at hand, with respect to your own words. If you can.

Those that dwell in the criminal regions don't tend to register their NFA items so statiticlly speaking crimes committed with registered NFA items would probably be insignificant. Even if those crimes were significant, .gov would almost certainly censure any news of it. Sort of like the "war on drugs". How many years went by before the government finally admitted that the policies were a failure from the get-go.

 

[Chuckie]

I didn't speak of religious arguments because I'm not a christian, nor religious. I did speak of "shall not be infringed" with reference to you apologizing for current brace rules, and then blaming gun owners. Again, we are speaking of a rule, not a law. Something you keep ignoring for some reason. If you understand what strawman means then what you're doing is at the very core of what that means. Hint: We aren't lobbying for criminals to carry explosives.

You are correct that strictly speaking, the ATF does not have the authority to create laws. What they do have is the authority, through the DOJ, to enforce the laws passed by Congress and the rules proposed by the DOJ. But concerning those rules, whether written in ink or blood, you would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to violate them even though they are not "laws".

All it takes to cow the public is a perception . . . and .gov is a master at creating perceptions.

 

[HiredHand]

The thing that I dislike more than armed criminals is law abiding citizens that unable to be armed because of asinine laws and rules. There are legitimate reasons for owning silencers, short-barreled shotguns and rifles. Focusing on the possible criminal intent and using that as the reasoning for restricting the ownership isn’t reasonable in my book.

We don’t live in a perfect world. I do believe we live in a much safer society than either side of the 2A argument would want us to believe because both seek to elicit our deeper fears.

 

[JD8]

Yes, I admit that I took things beyond just arm-braces, because most others also take it way beyond just arm-braces.

But getting back to a more narrow focus, the problem I have is not with the arm-braces themselves but with the ashhats that used those braces to try to circumnavigate the existing laws concerning the exemption from NFA registration requirements that legitimate arm-braced SBR's [for the disabled] enjoy. It angers me the same way as those that park in handicapped spots yet are not handicapped themselves.

There we have it. First and foremost..... fawk your feelings lol. Sick and tired of people thinking their emotions dictate the laws. Second, we are talking about a work around for sure but a completely "legal" one deemed by the ATF (at one point). Quite a bit different than someone illegally parking. Some quick questions, how many products were approved by the ATF? Also, what did the ATF say about shouldering a brace? Do some reading and come back......

Cheating the system so some SBR owners don't have to register their NFA item is really no different than the legal immigrant that spends the time and money, jumps through the hoops, learns the language - all to become a citizen . . . then watches the illegal border crosser be granted citizenship without having to do anything except be a political pawn. It's enough to piss-off the Pope!
Then to add insult to injury, the same ashhats want to blame everyone else because they were caught cheating the system, instead of just saying something like 'I'm so sorry and it won't happen again (wink wink).

Actually it's significantly different. Again, you seem ignorant of the history and timeline as to what happened with braces. Read the law, read what the NFA says, read what the "rule" said from 2012 on. Get back to us. HUGE difference between someone breaking the law and coming here illegally.

 

[Chuckie]

I didn't speak of religious arguments because I'm not a christian, nor religious. I did speak of "shall not be infringed" with reference to you apologizing for current brace rules, and then blaming gun owners. Again, we are speaking of a rule, not a law. Something you keep ignoring for some reason. If you understand what strawman means then what you're doing is at the very core of what that means. Hint: We aren't lobbying for criminals to carry explosives.

" Hint: We aren't lobbying for criminals to carry explosives."

Maybe not but some ARE lobbying to be able to carry explosives, rockets, flame-throwers, etc. '. . . shall not be infringed'. What I was trying to point out in many of my posts is that having that "Right' would not be exclusive to only the law-abiding. A lot more criminals WOULD be carrying these things only for the fact that they are currently strictly regulated. Throw in the fact that there are so many roaming our streets that simply do not have the responsibility to safely have these items and it's not hard to understand why some of these things need to stay under lock & key.
It's not about Constitutions or about 'Rights', it's about the reality of our society and what it would be like if '. . . shall not infringe' was truly the law of the land. One does not have to look far in modern history to see the results of an 'anything goes' mentality (Northern Ireland, Lebanon, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, and so many others) where innocent 'civilians' are being blown-up, machine gunned, and otherwise slaughtered en mass' with items that are currently restricted in the US.

 

[JD8]

You are correct that strictly speaking, the ATF does not have the authority to create laws. What they do have is the authority, through the DOJ, to enforce the laws passed by Congress and the rules proposed by the DOJ. But concerning those rules, whether written in ink or blood, you would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to violate them.
View attachment 383816
All it takes to cow the public is a perception . . . and .gov is a master at creating perceptions.

Can you give us a breakdown of the pistol brace rule changes from its inception?

 

[JD8]

" Hint: We aren't lobbying for criminals to carry explosives."

Maybe not but some ARE lobbying to be able to carry explosives, rockets, flame-throwers, etc. '. . . shall not be infringed'. What I was trying to point out in many of my posts is that having that "Right' would not be exclusive to only the law-abiding. A lot more criminals WOULD be carrying these things only for the fact that they are currently strictly regulated. Throw in the fact that there are so many roaming our streets that simply do not have the responsibility to safely have these items and it's not hard to understand why some of these things need to stay under lock & key.
It's not about Constitutions or about 'Rights', it's about the reality of our society and what it would be like if '. . . shall not infringe' was truly the law of the land. One does not have to look far in modern history to see the results of an 'anything goes' mentality (Northern Ireland, Lebanon, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, and so many others) where innocent 'civilians' are being blown-up, machine gunned, and otherwise slaughtered en mass' with items that are currently restricted in the US.

So this goes back to my request for pistol brace crimes. If your slippery slope were true, then all the deaths in Chicago would be caused by pistol braced firearms. Completely legal till recently, and easy to get. That hasn't been the case.....mindblowing eh? What HAS been an issue, is gangs getting ahold of Glock switches turning handguns full auto.

 

[Chuckie]

The thing that I dislike more than armed criminals is law abiding citizens that unable to be armed because of asinine laws and rules. There are legitimate reasons for owning silencers, short-barreled shotguns and rifles. Focusing on the possible criminal intent and using that as the reasoning for restricting the ownership isn’t reasonable in my book.

We don’t live in a perfect world. I do believe we live in a much safer society than either side of the 2A argument would want us to believe because both seek to elicit our deeper fears.

Oh I agree with you completely @HireHand. If I had any firearms (wink wink) there would be no way in hell that I would give them up. My 'fight' is only against those whose '. . . shall not infringe' stance centers on their idea that everyone should be able to own anything, for use anywhere, anytime. Well screw that! There is no way I want my (usualy drunk or high) 'gang banger' neighbor to have a box of fragmentation grenades or his own HBMG M2 .50 cal.
I've lived in areas (Compton, CA, Lenox, CA, N. Las Vegas, NV) where non-registered NFA items were fairly common in the 'hood'. In fact in N. Las Vegas, my kids and I had to sleep on the floor UNDER our beds (for safety) during the whole three years we lived there. No thanks, been there, done that!