Army wants to dump the M9?

[Junior Bonner]

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-peter-soulis-inci

The Aftermath
Remarkably, Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream. Although Soulis could not have known it, Palmer was wanted for murder in a neighboring state.

 

[SoonerP226]

Remarkably, Palmer had taken 22 hits from Soulis' .40-caliber Glock, 17 of which had hit center mass. Despite the fact that the weapon had been loaded with Ranger SXTs considered by many to be one of the best man-stoppers available Palmer lived for more than four minutes after the last shot was fired. His autopsy revealed nothing more than a small amount of alcohol in his bloodstream. Although Soulis could not have known it, Palmer was wanted for murder in a neighboring state.

Anybody under the mistaken impression that there's anything like a "one shot stopper" in a handgun caliber should spend a few minutes browsing here: http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-archive.php

If men wounded by rifles, artillery, and even air strikes can keep going, what, in the name of all that's holy, makes you think that anything you can carry and fire with one hand will give you a one shot stop?

 

[Junior Bonner]

Anybody under the mistaken impression that there's anything like a "one shot stopper" in a handgun caliber should spend a few minutes browsing here: http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-archive.php

If men wounded by rifles, artillery, and even air strikes can keep going, what, in the name of all that's holy, makes you think that anything you can carry and fire with one hand will give you a one shot stop?

Officer soulis achieved 17 center mass hits. I have wondered about what .45 ammunition was used to such devastating effect in the Phillipine Insurrection. All I get when I research this is how it led to the M1911 and the .45ACP. I know .45 Colt revolvers were used, and I suspect .45 Long Colt, non jacketed bullets. Dumdum bullets. I could be wrong, because I can't find the data.

 

[Junior Bonner]

I found it. In wikipedia. The Army ditched the .38 and went back to the Colt .45, a murderous double action revolver which fired the .45 Colt cartridge, non jacketed.

Obsolete, but effective.

Edit: I read accounts today of the .45 Colt, or Long Colt being used against "Bolo Men" in the Philippines. This is not the ACP. Despite what I have read about there not being such a thing as "knock down power," eye witness accounts state that the machete wielding attackers were "knocked off their feet" by this particular round.

 

[BallisticBiker]

A tidbit from Fox News today: Army buys more M9 pistols

When they say 'modular' are they meaning like this:


That vid shows the kit on a Glock, but they make it for several different firearms.

Just too bad that our p.o.s. POTUS has done such a fantastic job of pissing off our buddies in Israel. Could probably work somethin' out...

I'm a huge fan of my Beretta 92FS. But I recently started to tote a Jericho/Baby Eagle in .45acp. Has all the features of the 92 that I adore, but chambered in the venerable .45acp.
Which, personally, I just think is mo' betta....ymmv

 

[Shadowrider]

Not long ago I got to shoot a Colt SAA in .45LC. He had some loads loaded with black powder that he wanted to run over the chrono. Don't remember all the details but I think that they were pushing 300 grains and clocked close to 1000 FPS out of a 4.75" barrel. Certainly nothing to sneeze at...

 

[Junior Bonner]

Not long ago I got to shoot a Colt SAA in .45LC. He had some loads loaded with black powder that he wanted to run over the chrono. Don't remember all the details but I think that they were pushing 300 grains and clocked close to 1000 FPS out of a 4.75" barrel. Certainly nothing to sneeze at...

Well, everybody scratches their head at why it takes two dozen Gold Dots to put Angel Alvarez in the hospital. I don't know why. But I know the the .45 Long Colt cartridge you're talking about did a number on the machete men in the Philippines. I suspect the 300 grain dumdum bullet going at 1,000 fps has a lot of foot pounds of energy, maybe exceeding 1,000 lbs at impact. They don't blossom out into a parachute, either. They resemble spat out chewing gum.

Again, the Colt revolver pictured below is what knocked crazed assailants off their feet. That's according to the soldiers who were there. Since this platform and munition is proven, the platform should be considered for modernization. The bullet should be non jacketed, and in .45 Long Colt. 300 grains. It's not hypothesis, it is historical fact what this round did.

 

[Junior Bonner]

Angel Alvarez in ICU after taking two dozen Gold Dots.

8 days later he walked unassisted to his courtroom hearing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gvxysQyT1H6ysdU5OaeM7xA&bvm=bv.71778758,d.aWw

Eight days after he survived 23 bullet wounds for a new city record, Angel Alvarez walked up the sidewalk behind the courthouse with barely a limp.
He did have his right arm in a sling and there were bandages on his left forearm, as well as both legs, and there was some kind of surgical material on both feet.
But even in the black plastic clogs that replaced his bloodied shoes, he was having no trouble keeping pace with the three detectives escorting him from the black unmarked car parked at the corner.
Procedure would have mandated him being handcuffed behind his back. That was complicated by the sling, so the detectives had improvised by snapping one bracelet on his left wrist and the other to the waistband of his black shorts.
If he was in pain, there was no sign of it in his face or eyes. He also gave no indication that he felt fantastically fortunate to be alive. He walked as impassively as a guy out for a stroll in the noon hour.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...s-escort-court-article-1.206943#ixzz38uOCI2bj

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

....... I suspect the 300 grain dumdum bullet going at 1,000 fps has a lot of foot pounds of energy, maybe exceeding 1,000 lbs at impact......

......Again, the Colt revolver pictured below is what knocked crazed assailants off their feet.......

A 300gr bullet at 1000fps would have 666ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. You can calculate it yourself at: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php


No handgun bullet is capable of "knocking crazed assailants off their feet". If it had the power to do that it would do the same to the person firing the weapon (you know all that equal and opposite reaction physics type stuff).

 

[Junior Bonner]

A 300gr bullet at 1000fps would have 666ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle. You can calculate it yourself at: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php


No handgun bullet is capable of "knocking crazed assailants off their feet". If it had the power to do that it would do the same to the person firing the weapon (you know all that equal and opposite reaction physics type stuff).

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/9-113306

Ammo .45 Long Colt Buffalo Bore 300 Grain Jacketed Flat Nose Bullet 1300 fps 20 Rounds 3B/50

These loads are also safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns as well as all Winchester and Marlin 1894's


uzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1125 ft/lbs
Velocity at 25 yards: 1240 fps
Energy at 25 yards: 1024 ft/lbs
Velocity at 50 yards: 1186 fps
Energy at 50 yards: 937 ft/lbs

http://www.morolandhistory.com/Related Articles/Legend of .45.htm

"It is thought the .45 caliber revolver [meaning the Constabulary Model 1902 ] is the one which should be issued to troops throughout the ArmyÉ. Instances have repeatedly been reported during the past year where natives have been shot through and through several times with a .38 caliber revolver, and have come on, cutting up the unfortunate individual armed with itÉ. The .45 caliber revolver stops a man in his tracks, usually knocking him downÉ."

Referenced +1,000 ft/lbs and knock down. Not to argue with physics, but don't go bowling, when that ball strikes the pins, the bowler could get knocked down.