Business Owner's Rights

[Stephen Cue]

This might come as a surprise, but instructors and law enforcement personnel often don't know the law.

My instructor (Marshall Luton - who runs TDSA Tulsa and is also a cop) agreed that carrying past a sign on private property did not carry any consequences other than a trespassing charge if you refused to leave.

This.

Marshall knows what he's talking about.

 

[TulsaBandit]

I'd be curious to see your research on the side of the issue that supports the claim you made in your original post.
Bryan

I stated in my original post what I was told from the instructor and TPD. I merely posted what I was told and I stated that. I didn't say that I'm right and you are wrong.

When I said that I've done some research and seen both sides of the issue I meant that I have seen people arguing both sides. Not saying that I have seen anything that "supports" any claims. Just that I've seen the argument being made.

When I asked if anyone had any information they had I mean actual cases that my involve the subject. Not the lack of written repercussions.

 

[skyydiver]

Fortunately, most law enforcement officers are not attorneys. While this does show a general theme of good character, it also means that they have spent their careers chasing bad guys and keeping us safe, as opposed to studying the ridiculous number of statutes on the books. I would suggest for legal advice, consulting an attorney, if you choose to run in such seedy circles.


That was for you JB!

 

[Quick_Draw_McGraw]

Like I said, this was the information I was given by the instructor and the law enforcement personnel that were there.

Where did you take your CCW license training from and who was the instructor?

I cannot find a case for or against either argument. Does anyone else have anything stating either way?

There is a difference between legislation that defines the rights of individuals or a businesses, and laws that specify rules and consequences.

The document that you quoted specified the "rights" by which a business could limit admittance to their property.

 

[bulbboy]

When you want to know the legality of something you don't go to the enforcement arm - you go to the legislative or judical arm (even then do they even know!)

 

[TulsaBandit]

Where did you take your CCW license training from and who was the instructor?

Bixby PD

Officer Konshak

Guys I'm sorry if my post came across as me saying that everyone is wrong, that wasn't my intention. I just want to get down to the absolute truth of the issue instead of individuals interpretations of the law. I'm hearing both sides and it's conflicting.

I know someone that works as an attorney with the TPD, I'll get their side of the story and post that too.

 

[Glocktogo]

You're not gonna loose your license or face a criminal or civil penalty for carrying into a business with a gunbuster sign. You might face those consequences if you chose to stay there once you've been asked to leave.

Unlike weapons prohibited signs on government buildings or traffic signs on the public roadways, gunbuster signs at private businesses in the State of Oklahoma do not carry the weight of law. In Texas however, they do. It's all in how the law is written.

 

[joemonday]

Sometimes our mouth gets out there a little ahead of our brain.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

I know its not the exact same thing but a "no weapons" sign on a business is SIMILAR to a "no smoking" sign. If you are smoking, they can ask you to leave but you can't get arrested for it unless you cause a disruption and refuse to comply.

 

[BryanDP]

know its not the exact same thing but a "no weapons" sign on a business is SIMILAR to a "no smoking" sign. If you are smoking, they can ask you to leave but you can't get arrested for it unless you cause a disruption and refuse to comply.

I see the point you're making here and I'm definitely not just trying to be argumentative, but the two scenarios are actually very different. State health code prohibits smoking in most public locations. Tulsa has (and I assume other municipalities do as well) a provision in their ordinances that allows them to fine for violation of the state health code. There is no such provision that I'm aware of in Oklahoma law (or in Tulsa's municipal code) to handle the situation of someone with a concealed weapons permit carrying a concealed firearm in a business against the wishes of a business owner.

A better example might be to compare the "no guns" sign to a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" sign. It's not against the law for you to not wear shoes into a store (at least as far as I know, though admittedly I have not researched it) -- the store owner just doesn't want you to.

Bryan