DeMolay Oklahoma info

[T. MIKE SMITH]

You’re a converted Catholic, which I’m taking to mean you are Catholic (unless you meant you converted away from Catholicism). As a self-proclaimed Catholic, you should know Pope Clement XII forbade Catholics from joining Freemasonry in 1738 under pain of excommunication. Even John Paul II declared in 1983 that Catholics enrolled in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin.

You disregard elements of your own religion in favor of those of Freemasonry. This just proves my point that they are irreconcilable.

Pope Clement XII - wealthy lawyer who bought his way into a high position of the church, receiving dispensation and appointment after appointment by paying off anyone who would move him up. Once he became Pope, he concentrated on making money, cause we all know, MONEY IS THE REAL POWER. How do you do things like that- you come up with rulings that any other organization a Catholic might belong to is bad so they will only spend time and money for the church. The Anti-Popes through history make me sick, up to and including the off the rail lib in there now. You want me to support the Priesthood- they better be Christ on Earth. Ahead of this not so good person was an earlier Pope Clement V in 1307, who in a scheme with his cousin, King Phillip IV of France, who had received money and the services of the Knights Templar, and who not only, didn't want to pay them, but wanted to steal the rest of their money. So, they just name them as heretics for preforming ceremonies, claiming they were against church teachings. They had a "secret" ceremony for membership that got deemed heresy. Then Philip had Jacques de Molay, head of the Knights Templar executed and forced Clement to order all of them arrested and their funds seized. Nothing less than murder for money. The DeMolay and Masons are believed to have modeled themselves partially on the beliefs of the Knights Templar and the Stone Masons in a symbolic manner. The more I learn about Catholics through the years make me question being one. The Catholic church has been responsible for a lot of death, corruption, sexual misconduct, and many other sins, that I hope are in the past. Today I like the structure and service of the Mass. I believe in the sacrifice and provisions that bring it into place. I don't know that I will ever be a fan of all of its priesthood.

 

[Podman]

Yes the Catholic Church is a total fraud started by ignorant disciples who just didn't understand
Jesus at all. And the Catholic Church which emerged was an extension of the Roman Empire and
all its dictators desire to rule the world. So the history since has been all the wars and crimes
committed by it.

 

[Firpo]

Seems this thread has been forced from a discussion about a fraternal organization into a religious debate by some. Maybe it should be moved to the correct forum as this is the General Discussions Forum and not intended for such discussions.

 

[GnometownHero]

Pope Clement XII - wealthy lawyer who bought his way into a high position of the church, receiving dispensation and appointment after appointment by paying off anyone who would move him up. Once he became Pope, he concentrated on making money, cause we all know, MONEY IS THE REAL POWER. How do you do things like that- you come up with rulings that any other organization a Catholic might belong to is bad so they will only spend time and money for the church. The Anti-Popes through history make me sick, up to and including the off the rail lib in there now. You want me to support the Priesthood- they better be Christ on Earth. Ahead of this not so good person was an earlier Pope Clement V in 1307, who in a scheme with his cousin, King Phillip IV of France, who had received money and the services of the Knights Templar, and who not only, didn't want to pay them, but wanted to steal the rest of their money. So, they just name them as heretics for preforming ceremonies, claiming they were against church teachings. They had a "secret" ceremony for membership that got deemed heresy. Then Philip had Jacques de Molay, head of the Knights Templar executed and forced Clement to order all of them arrested and their funds seized. Nothing less than murder for money. The DeMolay and Masons are believed to have modeled themselves partially on the beliefs of the Knights Templar and the Stone Masons in a symbolic manner. The more I learn about Catholics through the years make me question being one. The Catholic church has been responsible for a lot of death, corruption, sexual misconduct, and many other sins, that I hope are in the past. Today I like the structure and service of the Mass. I believe in the sacrifice and provisions that bring it into place. I don't know that I will ever be a fan of all of its priesthood.

Your explanation of Pope Clement and King Phillip was good. They were the epìtomy of evil despots

 

[CoronaBorealis]

Pope Clement XII - wealthy lawyer who bought his way into a high position of the church, receiving dispensation and appointment after appointment by paying off anyone who would move him up. Once he became Pope, he concentrated on making money, cause we all know, MONEY IS THE REAL POWER. How do you do things like that- you come up with rulings that any other organization a Catholic might belong to is bad so they will only spend time and money for the church.

I'm not going to sit here and say that every Pope throughout history has been a saint. I know there have been some pretty bad ones. I think where people make the mistake with the papacy is not separating the man from the office. Popes as men are fully capable of sinning, and some may in fact even be in Hell. When they speak from the Chair though, as head of the Church, their proclamations are binding. This is promised by Christ to St. Peter.

Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
[Matthew 18:18]

In this case, the binding proclamation was to forbid Catholic associations with Freemasonry.

The Anti-Popes through history make me sick, up to and including the off the rail lib in there now.

I'm in full agreement with you on this.

You want me to support the Priesthood- they better be Christ on Earth....The more I learn about Catholics through the years make me question being one.

Why does the priesthood have to be Christ on Earth? Christ certainly has higher expectations for the priesthood, and when they fall short of those, I have no doubt they will suffer greater punishment than the rest of us would as a result. Same as being a parent -- getting drunk is sinful, but getting drunk in front of your children is doubly sinful, since you're also scandalizing them through bad example. Priests who scandalize their flock will be held even more accountable.

The Catholic church has been responsible for a lot of death, corruption, sexual misconduct, and many other sins, that I hope are in the past. Today I like the structure and service of the Mass. I believe in the sacrifice and provisions that bring it into place. I don't know that I will ever be a fan of all of its priesthood.

The priesthood as an institution is part and parcel of Catholicism. Denying any element of the Faith is a rejection of the whole. Remember, though, there's a difference between the men and the office they hold. Individual priests are entirely capable of sin and damnation. They'll be held accountable even more than the rest of us for any scandals they are responsible for.

Seems this thread has been forced from a discussion about a fraternal organization into a religious debate by some. Maybe it should be moved to the correct forum as this is the General Discussions Forum and not intended for such discussions.

If it's a religious debate, does that mean you are conceding Freemasonry is a religion?

 

[OkieMoe]

Seems this thread has been forced from a discussion about a fraternal organization into a religious debate by some. Maybe it should be moved to the correct forum as this is the General Discussions Forum and not intended for such discussions.

I flip to get the into ive needed. And will save the rest for reading material when I have time.

 

[Firpo]

If it's a religious debate, does that mean you are conceding Freemasonry is a religion?

Ugh. No, I’m saying you continue to try and turn it into one when it’s not. Again, what are you hoping to accomplish other than argue with everyone? You’ve stated your position ad nauseam and every time someone new shares you spin off again. Clearly you have a strong opinion on the subject but how we went from someone asking about a Masonic youth organization to you’re questioning people’s faith and which pope said what I haven’t a clue. Admittedly you have been mostly respectful to folks which I appreciate that but dang, you have a way of coming across like a garlic milkshake.

 

[T. MIKE SMITH]

I'm not going to sit here and say that every Pope throughout history has been a saint. I know there have been some pretty bad ones. I think where people make the mistake with the papacy is not separating the man from the office. Popes as men are fully capable of sinning, and some may in fact even be in Hell. When they speak from the Chair though, as head of the Church, their proclamations are binding. This is promised by Christ to St. Peter.

Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
[Matthew 18:18]

In this case, the binding proclamation was to forbid Catholic associations with Freemasonry.



I'm in full agreement with you on this.



Why does the priesthood have to be Christ on Earth? Christ certainly has higher expectations for the priesthood, and when they fall short of those, I have no doubt they will suffer greater punishment than the rest of us would as a result. Same as being a parent -- getting drunk is sinful, but getting drunk in front of your children is doubly sinful, since you're also scandalizing them through bad example. Priests who scandalize their flock will be held even more accountable.



The priesthood as an institution is part and parcel of Catholicism. Denying any element of the Faith is a rejection of the whole. Remember, though, there's a difference between the men and the office they hold. Individual priests are entirely capable of sin and damnation. They'll be held accountable even more than the rest of us for any scandals they are responsible for.



If it's a religious debate, does that mean you are conceding Freemasonry is a religion?

you are too deep in kool aid for me

 

[CoronaBorealis]

I never questioned anyone's faith. I made a statement about Christianity and Freemasonry being incompatible and provided reasons why. I never really got a clear answer on why my reasons were supposedly invalid. Mike Smith said he was Catholic, so I responded to him Catholic to Catholic.

I got into deep religious debates in the religious debate forum a few months ago and had people tell me that Catholicism was anti-Christian for this reason or that. Interesting how those people are silent now.

 

[T. MIKE SMITH]

I never questioned anyone's faith. I made a statement about Christianity and Freemasonry being incompatible and provided reasons why. I never really got a clear answer on why my reasons were supposedly invalid. Mike Smith said he was Catholic, so I responded to him Catholic to Catholic.

I got into deep religious debates in the religious debate forum a few months ago and had people tell me that Catholicism was anti-Christian for this reason or that. Interesting how those people are silent now.

Maybe they are like me--- sick of dealing with you