FBI switching to 9mm

[MoBoost]

Having seen more than a few people shot, and killed, by all common calibers: placement is king. After decades of experience, arms/ammunition makers know that .30-.45 handgun calibers work best for taking bi-pedal targets because they have highly comparable and consistent penetration and damaging capability. The cartridges offering comparable penetration have fairly different "ignition properties". I.e., .40 is "snappier" than a .45 which has more "push" than a 9mm. Bottom line, and easily demonstrable: a decently performing shooter will be faster and more accurate with 9mm than with .45 or .40 from the same platform; equally, the 9mm offers the same or greater capacity in a smaller frame (which is easier to control).

Don't bring logic, actual experience and field data to this discussion, damit!!!
45ACP is a hard hitter like 45-70, and shooting twice is silly.
9mm is what women-folk use to qualify, aka closest thing to airsoft.

oh.... and tanks!!!

 

[twoguns?]

HMMMMmm...yeup...8)

 

[aestus]

Until the military gets away from ball ammo and can use the same hollowpoints that LEO and civilians have access to, then I don't blame them for possibly wanting to go bigger. I know SF dudes are the exception as they sometimes will use non-ball ammo, but generally speaking the military is limited to ball ammo.

For LEO, they have the advantage of being able to use great defensive loads with the latest bullet technology. Because of that, it makes better sense for LEO to go with 9mm as the capacity and improved accuracy with followup shots with the better performing bullets outweighs any "improved" effectiveness by going with a bigger caliber and sacrificing accurate followup shots and capacity.

 

[henschman]

With a handgun it makes sense to me to go with the lightest recoiling round you can get that will still achieve reliable expansion and full body penetration. 9mm seems to be that round.

It's kind of funny to hear them talk about all these supposedly "new" bullet designs. Bonded hollow points have been around for a while. Just an illustration of how long it takes rigid bureaucracies to change their thinking.

 

[Jestik]

Typical gubberment crap. Military is getting out of the 9mm because they feel it's inadequate and the FBI wants to jump into it...

Maybe they can both save the taxpayers some dollars and just swap sidearms. Problem solved.

I guess if they want to say shot placement is what kills ( which I do agree), then maybe they should go with the 22LR round. I heard that round will just flop around in the skull or chest cavity destroying whatever it travels through.

I have this vision in my head of a big line of soldiers on what side and federal agents on the other, and then they walk up all "red rover" style and switch pistols with one another.

 

[GlockCop]

With a handgun it makes sense to me to go with the lightest recoiling round you can get that will still achieve reliable expansion and full body penetration. 9mm seems to be that round.

It's kind of funny to hear them talk about all these supposedly "new" bullet designs. Bonded hollow points have been around for a while. Just an illustration of how long it takes rigid bureaucracies to change their thinking.

lol yeah. Welcome to my world!

 

[ProBusiness]

two medical examiners, one i talked to in person, said that after 1,000 and 1000s of autopsopies performed, they have seen a pattern. people shot with 9mm have 9-11 bullets in them, those shot with 45s have 3-4 to cause death. this was mainly gang violence. per their records, the 9mms stopped a fraction from being lethal. the 45s plowed on thru the tissue and were lethal.

bullets might have improved since these to guys did most of their work.

 

[SMS]

The military is not "getting out of 9MM"....

 

[uncle money bags]

Yes they are SMS.
I heard the new round is going to be either the 5.7 and 45 ACP. They want a round that will do all the work for them; delivering devastating wounds without the hassle of training and competence.

 

[Okieyote]

the military is limited to ball ammo, le is not. When you remove the advancements in projectiles then yes, a larger caliber can make a difference in down range performance. The whole reason that 9mm is falling back into favor is the advancement in bullet design which allows performance similar to and in some cases, greater than .40 or .45.

exactly