Federal Judge Orders Halt to 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Enforcement

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The judge's order is most certainly enforceable - with the help and acquiescence of the POTUS/exec branch, which controls the military (ya know, ye olde commande in chief). Even without the full support of the executive, I believe that the SCOTUS can order federally-controlled troops to enforce its orders (or attempt to), but I could be wrong on that part (mayb the POTUS has to do this for them, as Johnson did with the Little Rock Arkansas standoff with state national guard following Brown v. Board of Education). All this assuming that the military openly defies the authority of the courts as established in Marbury v. Madison and following, which is highly highly unlikely, given their decades long recognition of the courts as the ultimate arbiter and authority, and that defying them is arguably a treasonous offense.

 

[Glocktogo]

The judge's order is most certainly enforceable - with the help and acquiescence of the POTUS/exec branch, which controls the military (ya know, ye olde commande in chief). Even without the full support of the executive, I believe that the SCOTUS can order federally-controlled troops to enforce its orders (or attempt to), but I could be wrong on that part (mayb the POTUS has to do this for them, as Johnson did with the Little Rock Arkansas standoff with state national guard following Brown v. Board of Education). All this assuming that the military openly defies the authority of the courts as established in Marbury v. Madison and following, which is highly highly unlikely, given their decades long recognition of the courts as the ultimate arbiter and authority, and that defying them is arguably a treasonous offense.

I would argue that defying a federal judge is certainly not treason. I agree that the DoD would comply with the ruling if ordered to do so by the CiC, but that the DoD is in no way beholden to comply with any civilian judicial order.

Let's say for a moment that a civilian federal judge determined that our invasion of Afghanistan was a violation of Constitutional Law and ordered the military to immediately withdraw from that country? What about the CiC ordering the USMC to direct action in another country and a federal judge ordering that said mission was unlawful?

The DoD answers to the CiC and Congress only. Any acquiescence to a civilian judicial ruling by the DoD is a matter of courtesy, not law.

 

[HMCS(FMF)Ret.]

I'm not homophobic. I think anyone who's ever served in the military knows that gays have always been around, not a problem. I do support DADT though. I think that changing the policy would open a HUGE can of worms. I for one don't want to watch my OIC or CO tongue kissing his "husband" before we leave on a deployment. I could care less what two consenting adults do, but please don't make me have to be a witness to it.

 

[donner]

I'm not homophobic. I think anyone who's ever served in the military knows that gays have always been around, not a problem. I do support DADT though. I think that changing the policy would open a HUGE can of worms. I for one don't want to watch my OIC or CO tongue kissing his "husband" before we leave on a deployment. I could care less what two consenting adults do, but please don't make me have to be a witness to it.

will you provide them with the same courtesy then? I'm honestly just asking here.

 

[Glocktogo]

will you provide them with the same courtesy then? I'm honestly just asking here.

I don't see that as necessary. Two heterosexual people kissing likely led to their birth after all.

 

[HMCS(FMF)Ret.]

will you provide them with the same courtesy then? I'm honestly just asking here.

I'm retired now so fortunately I don't have to worry about it. To answer your question though, yes, I would definitely show those above me the proper respect and courtesy afforded them. Discipline and professionalism is a big part of being in the military, sexual preferences don't change that fact.

 

[JRSherman]

To answer your question though, yes, I would definitely show those above me the proper respect and courtesy afforded them. Discipline and professionalism is a big part of being in the military, sexual preferences don't change that fact.

Ditto Senior. One of the gay guys on my boat was in my division, a 2nd Class (E-5) when I got there, and made 1st Class (E-6) before he left. He was smart, he worked hard, he helped us understand our job, he was a pretty good leader when he had to be, and he's probably one of the reasons I'm tolerant of gay people to begin with.

On the other hand, there was another one that was every bit a POS when he got to the boat, acted the same way when he got booted off the boat, and last I heard he got kicked out of the Navy.

Even though I don't personally agree with it, I am tolerant of it, and much like skin color, just because you are doesn't automatically make you a bad person.

 

[de-evoproject]

This whole thing doesn't sit well with me. I would normally say do what ever you want with the gays in the military thing as long as you put the same standards you do on women, mainly keep them out of the combat arms jobs. Infantry is as much a different breed from the rest of the Army as the non-combat soldiers are a different breed from civilians, maybe even more so.

However that poses a major problem. Women can be easily distinguished from men and separated appropriately. You know for sure whether that is another woman or man in the showers, bunk rooms, ect. Homosexual isn't always quite so easy to determine. And i know its a shock, but people will lie to get their jollies.

Personally, I'm sure we probably had at least 1 or 2 gay guys in our unit or one we worked with. All i ask is keep it under wraps and do your job. In this case i would be perfectly happy being completely ignorant.

I've said it before and i'll say it again: Soldiers do a politically incorrect job, have a politically incorrect mindset and basically have none of the rights guaranteed to every other American. To all judges, politicians, lawyers, political rights activist and hippy liberals, please quit trying to force it to be a politically correct organization and just enjoy the freedoms it keeps safe for you.

 

[grizzly97]

This whole thing doesn't sit well with me. I would normally say do what ever you want with the gays in the military thing as long as you put the same standards you do on women, mainly keep them out of the combat arms jobs. Infantry is as much a different breed from the rest of the Army as the non-combat soldiers are a different breed from civilians, maybe even more so.

However that poses a major problem. Women can be easily distinguished from men and separated appropriately. You know for sure whether that is another woman or man in the showers, bunk rooms, ect. Homosexual isn't always quite so easy to determine. And i know its a shock, but people will lie to get their jollies.

Personally, I'm sure we probably had at least 1 or 2 gay guys in our unit or one we worked with. All i ask is keep it under wraps and do your job. In this case i would be perfectly happy being completely ignorant.

I've said it before and i'll say it again: Soldiers do a politically incorrect job, have a politically incorrect mindset and basically have none of the rights guaranteed to every other American. To all judges, politicians, lawyers, political rights activist and hippy liberals, please quit trying to force it to be a politically correct organization and just enjoy the freedoms it keeps safe for you.

Very well stated! The truth of the matter is when someone signs up for the military, especially infantry (I was an 0352), they typically have a mindset that a lot of people can't understand. I'm sick of the politicians trying to control the military! Let us do what we are trained to do (and we do it very well), and just be thankfull of the fact that it's not you on the front line. To all the politicians: sit back, shut up, and don't ask how we accomplished the mission! Just let us do it!

 

[inactive]

You know for sure whether that is another woman or man in the showers, bunk rooms, ect.

Actually, on occasion you don't.